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What Is an Experience Point Worth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7731909" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Which in the moment is fine, but when there's no "big picture" behind it all you're stuck there in the moment - and all you can do is lurch from moment to moment. You as DM can't or don't or won't plan ahead such that some big event coming later can be foreshadowed or hinted at now, nor can you bring the currently-played moments into any sort of larger focus.</p><p></p><p>If there's no secrets, what's the point? There's nothing to discover...which, when one of the theoretical pillars of the game is discovery (via exploration) seems kinda counter-intuitive and counterproductive.</p><p></p><p>The DM makes a game world (and by the by, a rule system), populates it, puts stories and adventures and what-have-you in it, and away we go.</p><p></p><p>I as player then get to explore this game world along with the other players, encountering and solving its mysteries as we go along but always able to wonder "What's over that next ridge?" or "What clue have we missed?". We might explore things the DM expects us to, or we might not. But we get to explore, and discover...which we can't do if we already know what's there! (which is also why I don't much enjoy playing in pre-published settings - same problem)</p><p></p><p>Having all the backstory be pre-known by the players is to me the same as showing us all the dungeon map before we go in - it ruins the mystery; and thus the game. And having no predesigned world at all, with the whole thing instead being some sort of Schroedinger's Universe, is even worse - I want to know these things in the game world would be the same if I explored it again tomorrow with a different party after having not explored it today.</p><p></p><p>Or a made-up-on-the-fly series of events, and if I'm doing it right you-as-player won't be able to tell the difference.</p><p></p><p>But if the players already know the back-story - which obviously includes what makes these guys tick including the logic/rationale/context of who they are and why they are there - they'll already know who the attackers are, right? They'll have metagame information players really shouldn't have which will make dealing with their foes a much simpler matter than it probably should be. Either that, or you're not following your own principles as noted above.</p><p></p><p>Which is really sad, in that not looking any further takes away all kinds of opportunity for mystery and long-term story.</p><p></p><p>The group of armed and surly-looking men, for example. You as DM can have them just be a random bunch of toughs, or they can be members of or hired by a gang whose toes the PCs have unwittingly stepped on (setting this gang up as later opponents or long-term villains), or they could be there as a distraction to allow someone to stow away on the PCs' ship (again setting something up for later). The players (and characters) don't and shouldn't know at the meta-game level whether these men are a random interrupt or part of something bigger; they just have to deal with the moment. You as DM, however, can juggle all sorts of things behind the scenes; and it makes for a better game if you do.</p><p></p><p>5e is more like 1e in that it's not straight xp-for-fights; avoidance, diplomacy, etc. get you the same reward.</p><p></p><p>Xp aren't very simulationist and are probably best just left that way. They do work as intended if used as individual character rewards based on what a character does, to measure the mechanical advancement of characters as they progress through the game.</p><p></p><p>The root cause of this problem in 3e-4e-(sort-of-5e) is that level advancement is simply far too fast. Fix this, and these other headaches go away.</p><p></p><p>Lanefan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7731909, member: 29398"] Which in the moment is fine, but when there's no "big picture" behind it all you're stuck there in the moment - and all you can do is lurch from moment to moment. You as DM can't or don't or won't plan ahead such that some big event coming later can be foreshadowed or hinted at now, nor can you bring the currently-played moments into any sort of larger focus. If there's no secrets, what's the point? There's nothing to discover...which, when one of the theoretical pillars of the game is discovery (via exploration) seems kinda counter-intuitive and counterproductive. The DM makes a game world (and by the by, a rule system), populates it, puts stories and adventures and what-have-you in it, and away we go. I as player then get to explore this game world along with the other players, encountering and solving its mysteries as we go along but always able to wonder "What's over that next ridge?" or "What clue have we missed?". We might explore things the DM expects us to, or we might not. But we get to explore, and discover...which we can't do if we already know what's there! (which is also why I don't much enjoy playing in pre-published settings - same problem) Having all the backstory be pre-known by the players is to me the same as showing us all the dungeon map before we go in - it ruins the mystery; and thus the game. And having no predesigned world at all, with the whole thing instead being some sort of Schroedinger's Universe, is even worse - I want to know these things in the game world would be the same if I explored it again tomorrow with a different party after having not explored it today. Or a made-up-on-the-fly series of events, and if I'm doing it right you-as-player won't be able to tell the difference. But if the players already know the back-story - which obviously includes what makes these guys tick including the logic/rationale/context of who they are and why they are there - they'll already know who the attackers are, right? They'll have metagame information players really shouldn't have which will make dealing with their foes a much simpler matter than it probably should be. Either that, or you're not following your own principles as noted above. Which is really sad, in that not looking any further takes away all kinds of opportunity for mystery and long-term story. The group of armed and surly-looking men, for example. You as DM can have them just be a random bunch of toughs, or they can be members of or hired by a gang whose toes the PCs have unwittingly stepped on (setting this gang up as later opponents or long-term villains), or they could be there as a distraction to allow someone to stow away on the PCs' ship (again setting something up for later). The players (and characters) don't and shouldn't know at the meta-game level whether these men are a random interrupt or part of something bigger; they just have to deal with the moment. You as DM, however, can juggle all sorts of things behind the scenes; and it makes for a better game if you do. 5e is more like 1e in that it's not straight xp-for-fights; avoidance, diplomacy, etc. get you the same reward. Xp aren't very simulationist and are probably best just left that way. They do work as intended if used as individual character rewards based on what a character does, to measure the mechanical advancement of characters as they progress through the game. The root cause of this problem in 3e-4e-(sort-of-5e) is that level advancement is simply far too fast. Fix this, and these other headaches go away. Lanefan [/QUOTE]
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