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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7731916" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Few comments on the &quot;contrived&quot; component of conversation that&nbsp; @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a> and&nbsp; @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6775031" target="_blank">Saelorn</a>:1)&nbsp; D&amp;D and all TTRPGs have a premise (sometimes multiple), themes, and tropes.2)&nbsp; D&amp;D and all TTRPGs have machinery/procedures by which (a) the game is expected to be facilitated and (b) the fiction is meant to be generated and interfaced with by physical players who are not able to actually interact with/inhabit the imaginary space which the participants are to share.Given 1 and 2 above, I'm left wondering how is that D&amp;D specifically, and TTRPGs generally, are going to be anything but overburdened by contrivance?&nbsp; 1 contracts the creative space such that it focuses it on very specific things to the exclusion of other things.2 makes a game of imagination capable of being played at all (while still being called a game) and enables the distillation of and interaction with 1.The only way I see to remove or significantly mitigate the &quot;contrivance-based&quot; nature of TTRPGing is to broaden, vanillia-ize, or dilute a game's premise (which you buy into to play at all!), themes, and tropes such that it is barely recognizable as a thing...and then have super generic rules that don't perpetuate much of anything.&nbsp; I'm thinking:&quot;Lets play a game!&quot;&quot;Ok, what kind of game?&quot;&quot;A game where you do stuff!&quot;&quot;What kind of stuff?&quot;&quot;Stuff that happens!&quot;&quot;Ummmm...ok, what is the game about?&quot;&quot;Whatever!&quot;&quot;Ummmm...how do we make stuff happen in this game about whatever?&quot;&quot;You tell me what you want to do and I'll just tell you what happens...maybe if you give me candy better stuff will happen?&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7731916, member: 6696971"] Few comments on the "contrived" component of conversation that @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582"]pemerton[/URL][/U][/B][/I] and @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6775031"]Saelorn[/URL][/U][/B][/I]: 1) D&D and all TTRPGs have a premise (sometimes multiple), themes, and tropes. 2) D&D and all TTRPGs have machinery/procedures by which (a) the game is expected to be facilitated and (b) the fiction is meant to be generated and interfaced with by physical players who are not able to actually interact with/inhabit the imaginary space which the participants are to share. Given 1 and 2 above, I'm left wondering how is that D&D specifically, and TTRPGs generally, are going to be anything but overburdened by contrivance? 1 contracts the creative space such that it focuses it on very specific things to the exclusion of other things. 2 makes a game of imagination capable of being played at all (while still being called a game) and enables the distillation of and interaction with 1. The only way I see to remove or significantly mitigate the "contrivance-based" nature of TTRPGing is to broaden, vanillia-ize, or dilute a game's premise (which you buy into to play at all!), themes, and tropes such that it is barely recognizable as a thing...and then have super generic rules that don't perpetuate much of anything. I'm thinking: "Lets play a game!" "Ok, what kind of game?" "A game where you do stuff!" "What kind of stuff?" "Stuff that happens!" "Ummmm...ok, what is the game about?" "Whatever!" "Ummmm...how do we make stuff happen in this game about whatever?" "You tell me what you want to do and I'll just tell you what happens...maybe if you give me candy better stuff will happen?" [/QUOTE]

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