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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7732033" data-attributes="member: 42582">In a spirit of response which I hope is not too combative!This claim is already controversial - that is, it takes a stand on an issue of game design where other stands are possible. To give concrete examples: I think it is largely true of XP in Rolemaster. I think it is largely false of XP in classic D&D, which are awarded to represent skill and success on the part of the player. (Hence, Gygax in his DMG explains that novice players should ideally begin at 1st level so as to get the full learning experience; but experienced players who have already undergone that learning experience, and raised PCs above 1st level, may wish to begin PCs at levels higher than 1st. They have already undergone the requisite learning and demonstrated the requisite skill in raising other PCs from 1st level.)This also takes stands on issues that can differe across RPGs.What is a "milestone", for instance? In Cortex+ Heroic, two milestones are defined for each character - eg Wolverine's "Old Friends, Old Enemies" milestone earns him 1 XP for identifying a character (PC or NPC) as an old foe or old ally, and 10 XP when he declares his old ally to now be an enemy (or vice versa); Captain America's "Mentor the Hero" milestone earns hims 1 XP when he chooses to aid a specific hero for the first time, and 10 XP when he either gives leadership of the team to his chosen hero or forces his chosen hero to resign or step down from the team.In our MHRP game, Nightcrawler completed his "Romantic"milestone (the 10 XP trigger is "10 XP when you either break off a romantic relationship, or seek to enter into a morepermanent partnership and ask your love to marry you" - in our case, Nightcrawler proposed to his lover in order to manipulate her for other purposes, and then left her jilted on top of the Capitol building). He spent some of the XP earned to replace his "Devout Catholic" trait with a new trait, "The Devil Within", to reflect the direction the player was taking the character in; and took a new milestone that I wrote up, in discussion with the player, to fit with this change of direction: 1 XP when he deliberately does a bad thing; 10 XP when either he brings an ally to his own state of disillusionment, or when an ally bring him back to the side of righteousness.So milestones are devices, worked out between GM and player, for setting defined paths of character exploration/development; and meeting the milestone triggers earns XP that are used to build and rebuild the PC.That's not a system for PC advancement that everyone would want in every RPG.As I understand it, "milestone" advancement in 5e means earning a level when the GM thinks the relevant point in "the story" has been reached. That might work where the main aim of play is for the players to work through the GM's story, and the main aim of levelling is to keep up with the challenges in the GM's story; but it obviously won't suit a Cortex+-type game, where the focus is more on exploring the character's development (eg it's Captain America's player who is expected to decide whether to hand over leadership to his chosen hero, or kick that hero out of the team - that's not the GM's decision!).Those sort of milestones won't work in a Gygaxian game, either, where there is no "story" but rather a dungeon to be explored and looted, and XP are a measure of how skilled a particular player is in obtaining that loot.So replacing XP with GM-determined milestones might suit some RPGing, but not all RPGing.This is true only assuming that levels are valued by the person accruing the XP (as you note, and unlike actual currencies, XP are not a universal medium of exchange that is useful whatever it is one wishes to acquire), and that levels are scarce.If levels are not valued by players, then they may not care particularly about whether they earn many or few XP. If levels are not scarce (eg they are a 4e-style pacing device, not a Gygaxian-style measure of player skill) then players may sometime want fast pacing and sometimes slow pacing, depending on varying taste and mood.If XP are so rare that gaining levels ceases to be a signifcant element of play then players may shift their focus to other aspects of gameplay, resulting in XP not being valued even though they are frugally awarded.I think the above two paragraphs aren't just hypotheticals but describe actual things that have happened in various RPG groups over the years (including some I've participated in).Different games use different sorts of PC build "currencies", and different ways of accruing it.In points buy games, points can be used to buy all sorts of stuff (depending on the details of the game). At least in some such systems, gear and gold is something you buy with points, rather than something independent that your character can collect. In Cortex+ Heroic, XP can be used to improve existing attributes, or add new ones - and (some) attributes in that system are the basis for relationships. Also, it is another system where is no such thing as "gear" or "wealth" independent of PC attributes.There can also be multiple currency systems in a game. 4e, for instance, uses XP to set PC level, which in turn sets hp, defences, skill and attack bonuses, feats, and powers; and then it uses gold (which is awarded by reference to level) primarily to acquire magic items, which are a parallel source of powers and feat-like abilities.In classic D&D gold isn't really a separate currency for PC building, as there is not much you do with it and magic items aren't generally for sale, until you get to high levels and use your savings to build a castle and thereby enter the name level endgame.In 5e there seems to be recurrent uncertainty as to exactly what the function of gold is as a seemingly parallel but independent system for improving one's PC.In a system with two different currencies, it may make sense to allow them to be exchanged, but not always. That would break the basic 4e design, for instance, and not generate much of a return that I can see.Well, if you want to reward fighting, they will work. If you want to reward (say) forging diplomatic alliances, the default presentation of them won't work. You'll have to adapt, or make up, some variant.My bottom line: different XP systems achieve different things. And it's a mistake in game design to emulate another game's XP system "just because" that's how it's been done in the past. (And in case my other posts haven't made it clear, I think that 2nd ed AD&D, 3E and probably 5e are guilty of this mistake, retaining aspects of Gygax's XP system but for no particularly clear purpose given the typical way they seem to be played.)</blockquote>

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