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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7732847" data-attributes="member: 29398">Simply put, (1) can only happen until and unless (2) happens for the very first time.  At the time (2) happens, if the DM has already changed X to Q in her notes etc. then Q is what will be used and locked in and X goes away.  If she hasn't, then X will be used and locked in and Q never sees the light of day.However, there's a clause in (2) that needs a closer look, which I've bolded.  The DM in this case doesn't even need to invoke any action resolution mechanics: she can, if she wants, just use her knowledge of X (or Q if Q has been subbed in at some earlier point) to flat-out say the action fails.  Now most DM's IME wouldn't do it like this as it gives away information (that the action is currently impossible) that the PCs have no reason to know.  Instead, having already established in house that the DM makes these sort of rolls, she'd go through the motions of rolling and narrate a failure.  This leaves the PCs (and by extension, players) in a more realistic position: they don't know if they've failed because of lack of competence or luck, or because success is impossible.While from the DM side I'm every bit as capable - maybe more so - of writing a boring dungeon as the next guy, as a player the whole scouting-mapping-exploration bit is a huge part of the game.This is something the 5e designers really got right, at least in theory: the game has three pillars, of which exploration is one.So either way, on a say-yes or a successful check the map is found in whatever location the PCs happen to be when they declare they're looking for it.  It just appears there.So what happens in this situation: we're searching a known-to-be-empty manor house for a unique map we know we'll need later.  There's four of us, and we're in a bit of a hurry so in the interests of time efficiency we split up; Abercrombie says he'll search the upstairs bedrooms, Barnacle says he'll search the living and dining areas and the closets, Cadwallader says he'll search the library, and Delmionndia says she'll search the study and drawing room.  If nobody finds anything we'll reconvene and search the basement and storage sheds together.But something odd happens on the way to the forum: all four individual searchers roll mighty successes on their checks.  But it's already been established that the map is unique - there's only one - which leaves our DM in something of a bind: four people somehow just found one map in four different places.A bind, note, that she wouldn't be in had she pre-placed the map in a particular room.This is probably true of just about any game, not just BW.Lan-"and saying that four maps were found - the one being looked for originally and three other different ones - invalidates three of the four success rolls"-efan</blockquote>

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