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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7732914" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I don't understand how you mean this.&nbsp; &quot;&lt;My post&gt; ignores the plug-in styled nature of the 5e chassis?&quot;&nbsp; That is 100 % precisely what I was saying.&nbsp; Precisely.&nbsp; The plug-in styled nature of the 5e chassis makes it so widgets (is that a better term?) that are not indispensable to the system/play experience (eg not fundamentally integrated) can be easily dispensed with (I don't understand your sensitivity regarding that word...it just means removed/gotten rid of...its just a word).&nbsp; This is actually good, deliberate design on behalf of the 5e designers.&nbsp; They intended for this because, as we saw in the playtest and afterward, a certain cross-section of D&amp;D players LOATHE(D) these indie components and used all sorts of truly pejorative language (other than benign words like &quot;knick-knack/widget&quot; or &quot;dispensed&quot;) to describe them!&nbsp; They knew they had a volatile, well-mobilized group of D&amp;D players to appease...and they did it masterfully while also putting some component parts (widgets, knick-knacks) of indie play in the game that can easily be removed (dispensed with) because they aren't fundamentally integrated into the system.&nbsp; And again, that was the point of my post.&nbsp; Components/widgets/knick-knacks do not an indie game make.&nbsp; It is the fundamental integration of all the varying parts into a tight design and focused play paradigm/premise that makes a game a modern (non-OSR) indie game.&nbsp; Again, hence why 5e is basically a &quot;mainstream OSR game&quot; (a DIY-centric, rulings-not-rules game without a tight design around a focused play paradigm/premise) and not a &quot;mainstream (non OSR) indie game&quot; (and why 4e very much fits that bill).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7732914, member: 6696971"] I don't understand how you mean this. "<My post> ignores the plug-in styled nature of the 5e chassis?" That is 100 % precisely what I was saying. Precisely. The plug-in styled nature of the 5e chassis makes it so widgets (is that a better term?) that are not indispensable to the system/play experience (eg not fundamentally integrated) can be easily dispensed with (I don't understand your sensitivity regarding that word...it just means removed/gotten rid of...its just a word). This is actually good, deliberate design on behalf of the 5e designers. They intended for this because, as we saw in the playtest and afterward, a certain cross-section of D&D players LOATHE(D) these indie components and used all sorts of truly pejorative language (other than benign words like "knick-knack/widget" or "dispensed") to describe them! They knew they had a volatile, well-mobilized group of D&D players to appease...and they did it masterfully while also putting some component parts (widgets, knick-knacks) of indie play in the game that can easily be removed (dispensed with) because they aren't fundamentally integrated into the system. And again, that was the point of my post. Components/widgets/knick-knacks do not an indie game make. It is the fundamental integration of all the varying parts into a tight design and focused play paradigm/premise that makes a game a modern (non-OSR) indie game. Again, hence why 5e is basically a "mainstream OSR game" (a DIY-centric, rulings-not-rules game without a tight design around a focused play paradigm/premise) and not a "mainstream (non OSR) indie game" (and why 4e very much fits that bill). [/QUOTE]

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