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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7733027" data-attributes="member: 42582">There are two main passages in Gygax's DMG where he discusses GM authority in relation to dice rolls. Here they are (pp 9, 110):The final word, then, is the game. Read how and why the system is as it is, follow the parameters, and then cut portions as needed to maintain excitement. For example, the rules call for wandering monsters, but these can be not only irritating - if not deadly - but the appearance of such can actually spoil a game by interfering with an orderly expedition You have set up an area full of clever tricks and traps, populated it with well thought-out creature complexes, given clues about it to pique players’ interest, and the group has worked hard to supply themselves with everything by way of information and equipment they will need to face and overcome the imagined perils. They are gathered together and eager to spend an enjoyable evening playing their favorite game, with the expectation of going to a new, strange area and doing their best to triumph. They are willing to accept the hazards of the dice, be it loss of items, wounding, insanity, disease, death, as long as the process is exciting. But lo!, everytime you throw the ”monster die” a wandering nasty is indicated, and the party’s strength is spent trying to fight their way into the area. Spells expended, battered and wounded, the characters trek back to their base. Expectations have been dashed, and probably interest too, by random chance. Rather than spoil such an otherwise enjoyable time, omit the wandering monsters indicated by the die. No, don’t allow the party to kill them easily or escape unnaturally, for that goes contrary to the major precepts of the game. Wandering monsters, however, are included for two reasons, as is explained in the section about them. If a party deserves to have these beasties inflicted upon them, that is another matter, but in the example above it is assumed that they are doing everything possible to travel quickly and quietly to their planned destination. If your work as a DM has been sufficient, the players will have all they can handle upon arrival, so let them get there, give them a chance. The game is the thing, and certain rules can be distorted or disregarded altogether in favor of play. Know the game systems, and you will know how and when to take upon yourself the ultimate power. To become the final arbiter, rather than the interpreter of the rules, can be a difficult and demanding task, and it cannot be undertaken lightly, for your players expect to play this gome, not one made up on the spot. By the same token, they are playing the game the way you, their DM, imagines and creates it. Remembering that the game is greater than its parts, and knowing all of the parts, you will have overcome the greater part of the challenge of being a referee. . . . In many situations it is correct and fun to have the players dice such things as melee hits or saving throws. However, it is your right to control the dice at any time and to roll dice for the players. You might wish to do this to keep them from knowing some specific fact. You also might wish to give them an edge in finding a particular clue, eg a secret door that leads to a complex of monsters and treasures that will be especially entertaining. You do have every right to overrule the dice at any time if there is a particular course of events that you would like to have occur. In making such a decision you should never seriously harm the party or a non-player character with your actions. "ALWAYS GIVE A MONSTER AN EVEN BREAK!" Examples of dice rolls which should always be made secretly are: listening, hiding in shadows, detecting traps, moving silently, finding secret doors, monster saving throws, and attacks made upon the party without their possible knowledge. There will be times in which the rules do not cover a specific action that a player will attempt. In such situations, instead of being forced to make a decision, take the option to allow the dice to control the situation. This can be done by assigning reasonable probability to an event and then letting the player dice to see if he or she can make that percentage. You can weigh the dice in any way so as to give the advantage to either the player or the non-player character, whichever seems more correct and logical to you while being fair to both sides. Now and then a player [sic] will die through no fault of his own. He or she will have done everything correctly, taken every reasonable precaution, but still the freakish roll of the dice will kill the character. In the long run you should let such things pass as the players will kill more than one opponent with their own freakish rolls at some later time. Yet you do have the right to arbitrate the situation. You can rule that the player, instead of dying, is knocked unconscious, loses a limb, is blinded in one eye or invoke any reasonably severe penalty that still takes into account what the monster has done. It is very demoralizing to the players to lose a cared-for-player character when they have played well. When they have done something stupid or have not taken precautions, then let the dice fall where they may!Four examples of manipulating dice throws are given. Two pertain to content introduction, namely, wandering monsters, and finding a secret door that will lead to a new part of the dungeon. In both cases the GM is granted express permission to manipulate this content introduction in the interests of encouraging enjoyable play: ignore wandering monster rolls that would result in the PCs not making it to the part of the dungeon they are heading for; allow the PCs to find a ssecret door that will lead to a particularly entertaining part of the complext.The two other examples pertain to action resolution, namely, mitgating PC death by treating it as some lesser form of incapacitation/disablement that "takes into account what the monster has done"; and allowing the PCs to kill wandeirng monsters easily or to escape from them "unnaturally". The GM is permitted to do, though gently discouraged from doing, the former; the GM is instructed not to do the latter, which would be "contrary to the major precepts of the game". What's the difference? The former mitigates the long-term impact of a monster's victory, but maintains its short-term impact (because it takes into accouint what the monster has done); whereas the latter bestows a victory on the PCs (and thereby the players) that they did not earn.Notice also that emphasis is placed on respecting skilled play. If a party is being unskilled in their dungeoneering (ie not travelling quickly and quietly to their planned destination) then they deserve to have wandering monsters inflicted upon them. If a player's PC died because the player played carelessly or recklessly, than no mitigation of consequences is warranted and the GM should let the dice fall where they may.These examples of when it is or is not proper to mitigate consequences, or override wandering monster rolls, inform our understanding of the more general remark that the referee may override the dice. Clearly it would be "contrary to the major precepts of the game" to do this so as to allow the players to win a conflict (so no fuding of enemy hit points, to hit rolls etc). This is reinforced by the GM being told not to seriusly harm the NPCs or monsters in overriding the dice.The GM is also told not to seriously harm the PCs by overriding the dice, which seems to rule out fudged capture scenes, NPC/monster escapes, etc. (This is also consistent with the idea that only skilled players are entitled to consequence mitigation, and even then only in a form that still "takes into account what the monster has done.)Indeed, the comment about "major precepts" together with the comment about "tak[ing] into account what the monster has done" together with the invocation not to seriously harm PCs or NPCs/monsters are all read together, overriding the dice in circumstances of conflict seem to be ruled out.So what sort of dice rolls might the GM override, consistently with everything that is said? Here are some examples that I can think of:* Finding a secret door in the course of exploration (that is Gygax's example; note that the GM fiating the finding of a secret door if the PCs are losing a fight seems to be ruled out, as that would be allowing them to escape "unnaturallY' and would not "take into account what the monster<s> ha[ve] done").</s> <s></s> <s>* A thief PC automatically succeeding on a check to climb a wall in the course of exploration (this is similar to the secret door example; and again, in an escape context it seems to be ruled out for the same reaons);</s> <s></s> <s>* A roll to find an item in cases where the item is not worth gold or XP (and so will not constitute a reward that is at odds with the precepts of the game) but rather is a plot device of some sort, like a key to a lower level or the password to a magical portal;</s> <s></s> <s>* A roll made to determine whether or not some monster turns up, or some similar untoward event occurs (like the example of the wandering monster roll Gygax discusses, this should not be done if the players have invited it - eg they walk into a room with a big gong in it and strike the gong - but might be applicable if the GM's notes say something like "This dining hall is normally empty, but there is a 20% chance that 6 goblin warriors are in here feasting").</s><s></s><s></s><s>These are all instances of content introduction, whether consequent on action declarations (the first three examples) or consequent on GM-side processes (like wandering monsters and the fourth of my examples).</s><s></s><s>It's also noteworthy that all Gygax's examples of secret GM dice rolls pertain to content introduction - either searching, or otherwise establishing that the PCs are aware of the monsters/NPCs, or establishing that the monsters/NPCs are aware of the PCs.</s><s></s><s>I think this paints a pretty clear picture of how Gygax envisages the game being played, and the relationship between GM authority and the dice, and it is with all the above in mind that I made the remark, upthread, that:</s><s></s><s></s></blockquote>

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