Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What is balance to you, and why do you care (or don't)?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8623126" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Building off the already stated "Batman and Superman" vs "Janitor Joe and Superman," one of my big issues is generally that it is actually really HARD to actually pull this off. That is, Batman on paper reads like a ridiculous Mary Sue: "I'm a world-class, beyond-Olympic athlete, one of the smartest men in the world, attractive, rich beyond the dreams of Avarice such that my entire superhero lifestyle can be hidden in a line item in the financial reports of my global business conglomerate. My parents were killed when I was eight which is what gave me the motivation to save others from suffering that kind of loss. Oh, and the man who raised me is a badass former British secret service agent, my adopted son is a similarly orphaned incredibly gifted gymnast and overall very sharp kid, and my main love interest is one of the world's leading catburglars <em>and also a rich socialite with her own multimillion corporation</em>." By comparison even Superman, the Man of Steel himself, begins to sound surprisingly restrained.</p><p></p><p>Playing favorites in this way in order to compensate for the phenomenal cosmic power of magic has a very real risk of fostering jealousy...and of course the irony is that both sides can develop bitter feelings toward the other. Like siblings who each resent the other because the younger one got all the attention and forgiven for all their errors, but the elder got all the authority and respect.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, I'm probably in the top five advocates for balance on this board, and I will always tell people to STOP doing this because it's not good gameplay....so....good?</p><p></p><p>The two most pernicious falsehoods about game balance are that it has to be perfect and is thus impossible (when, in truth, balance within a defined acceptable range is both totally achievable and very effective), and that it must be keyed lockstep to player progression (which is patently ridiculous and leads to a greatly impoverished experience).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I value all of those things too. I see literally nothing that prevents such behavior in a well-balanced game. Indeed, your use of M:TG is a lovely example, because it IS a game that strives very hard for balance <em>so that</em> those clever plays have greater impact. When a game is unbalanced, it features dominant strategies, which will crowd out other approaches unless someone finds a way to make a non-dominant strategy so massively useful that it can't be ignored. In a well-balanced game, by contrast, subtle interplay becomes the key difference between victory and defeat; the small contextual differences matter, and a careful plan that actually factors in the situation at hand will almost always be superior to just following the tried and true playbook.</p><p></p><p>Or, to put a spin on Anna's lessons in the Art to Atrus, "Balanced systems stimulate creativity and strategy."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8623126, member: 6790260"] Building off the already stated "Batman and Superman" vs "Janitor Joe and Superman," one of my big issues is generally that it is actually really HARD to actually pull this off. That is, Batman on paper reads like a ridiculous Mary Sue: "I'm a world-class, beyond-Olympic athlete, one of the smartest men in the world, attractive, rich beyond the dreams of Avarice such that my entire superhero lifestyle can be hidden in a line item in the financial reports of my global business conglomerate. My parents were killed when I was eight which is what gave me the motivation to save others from suffering that kind of loss. Oh, and the man who raised me is a badass former British secret service agent, my adopted son is a similarly orphaned incredibly gifted gymnast and overall very sharp kid, and my main love interest is one of the world's leading catburglars [I]and also a rich socialite with her own multimillion corporation[/I]." By comparison even Superman, the Man of Steel himself, begins to sound surprisingly restrained. Playing favorites in this way in order to compensate for the phenomenal cosmic power of magic has a very real risk of fostering jealousy...and of course the irony is that both sides can develop bitter feelings toward the other. Like siblings who each resent the other because the younger one got all the attention and forgiven for all their errors, but the elder got all the authority and respect. I mean, I'm probably in the top five advocates for balance on this board, and I will always tell people to STOP doing this because it's not good gameplay....so....good? The two most pernicious falsehoods about game balance are that it has to be perfect and is thus impossible (when, in truth, balance within a defined acceptable range is both totally achievable and very effective), and that it must be keyed lockstep to player progression (which is patently ridiculous and leads to a greatly impoverished experience). I value all of those things too. I see literally nothing that prevents such behavior in a well-balanced game. Indeed, your use of M:TG is a lovely example, because it IS a game that strives very hard for balance [I]so that[/I] those clever plays have greater impact. When a game is unbalanced, it features dominant strategies, which will crowd out other approaches unless someone finds a way to make a non-dominant strategy so massively useful that it can't be ignored. In a well-balanced game, by contrast, subtle interplay becomes the key difference between victory and defeat; the small contextual differences matter, and a careful plan that actually factors in the situation at hand will almost always be superior to just following the tried and true playbook. Or, to put a spin on Anna's lessons in the Art to Atrus, "Balanced systems stimulate creativity and strategy." [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What is balance to you, and why do you care (or don't)?
Top