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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 8625252" data-attributes="member: 6799660">I think you are overselling this a bit. Valor bards, in actual game play, do not fight as well as fighters regardless of the medium armor and 2 attacks (honestly they are fairly lackluster). Fighters, If-And-Only-If the 5 minute workday* is policed, are genuinely better than most others at the one task they've been allowed -- fighting really well. The extra feats, fighitng styles, 3+ attacks at higher level, native proficiency in all weapons and armor, action surge, and of course the archetype choices people so oft leave out when doing these comparisons, really do have an effect. Is a fighter a lot better at fighting with a dagger? No, and that is an interesting design decision on 5e's part; however they may very well be quite a bit better at fighting with two daggers (2wf), or surviving while fighting with a dagger (because they are in armor), or more likely just better at fighting with the greatswords or halberds or longbows that play better to their strengths. *Which I will again the oft-unread DMG has advice and optional rules and a clear rundown on the consequences of decisions regarding this issue.I'm not saying fighters don't suck, they do. However, it is when combat stops which is where they start sucking.I think we're on the same trail here. At that point the fact that the power comes from a ring and not the character ends up being important in very few situations (I guess the 'wake up naked in jail' scenario). Players, appetites whetted by playing not-D&D (including things like Hero System, where a green lantern-like ring is a specific option bought with build resources) and the slow accumulation of character build options in late 1e through 2e and in later BECMI as well, wanted the ability to choose and make internal to the character's being certain factors of their abilities. Not inherently an unwarranted desire, simply one that the downstream consequences have never been fully addressed (or I guess they have, and the results favor casters).</blockquote>

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