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<blockquote data-quote="Axiomatic Unicorn" data-source="post: 103634" data-attributes="member: 1974">I partly agree, but mostly disagree.&nbsp; I am guessing that the lying and stealing comments are the sticking point for you?I agree that these are never lawful.&nbsp; As such, I find it very hard to imagine a time when a paladin would choose to do either and still stay within code.But I do not see anything to indicate a pecking order in the code.&nbsp; (My personal campaign orders DO have pecking orders, so I support the idea)&nbsp; I just see a list.&nbsp; Plus, being Lawful good is at the start of the list and all of the above falls under that, so the argument gets a bit circular.But I can't imagine a Lawful Good god putting telling the truth ahead of saving innocent lives.&nbsp; For an extreme example, if a paladin was totally outmatched with no hope of saving fleeing people from a demon, but could delay the demon with a lie, thus letting the people get further away, he better lie.&nbsp; If, OTOH, he could stand and fight for just a few rounds and get the job done as well that way, lying would break the code.True stealing is even harder to imagine.&nbsp; I can't even think of a potential example at this time.&nbsp; So I guess I agree on that part.But I really disagree that the order of items in the list is important.&nbsp; (At lest for generic paladins, your Order may vary.)Put another way, to lie would be a chaotic act, to let innocents die would be an evil one.&nbsp; Only evil acts are automatic ex-paladin crimes.&nbsp; Chaotic acts are not listed.&nbsp; So to me THAT is a clear pecking order, evil is worse than chaotic.&nbsp; A lie would be a violation, but a lie that did not serve the paladins personal interest, but only served to protect the innocent, would not be a GROSS violation.Evil acts leave no wiggle room, chaotic acts must be considered &quot;gross violations&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Axiomatic Unicorn, post: 103634, member: 1974"] I partly agree, but mostly disagree. I am guessing that the lying and stealing comments are the sticking point for you? I agree that these are never lawful. As such, I find it very hard to imagine a time when a paladin would choose to do either and still stay within code. But I do not see anything to indicate a pecking order in the code. (My personal campaign orders DO have pecking orders, so I support the idea) I just see a list. Plus, being Lawful good is at the start of the list and all of the above falls under that, so the argument gets a bit circular. But I can't imagine a Lawful Good god putting telling the truth ahead of saving innocent lives. For an extreme example, if a paladin was totally outmatched with no hope of saving fleeing people from a demon, but could delay the demon with a lie, thus letting the people get further away, he better lie. If, OTOH, he could stand and fight for just a few rounds and get the job done as well that way, lying would break the code. True stealing is even harder to imagine. I can't even think of a potential example at this time. So I guess I agree on that part. But I really disagree that the order of items in the list is important. (At lest for generic paladins, your Order may vary.) Put another way, to lie would be a chaotic act, to let innocents die would be an evil one. Only evil acts are automatic ex-paladin crimes. Chaotic acts are not listed. So to me THAT is a clear pecking order, evil is worse than chaotic. A lie would be a violation, but a lie that did not serve the paladins personal interest, but only served to protect the innocent, would not be a GROSS violation. Evil acts leave no wiggle room, chaotic acts must be considered "gross violations" [/QUOTE]

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