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<blockquote data-quote="Voadam" data-source="post: 9606759" data-attributes="member: 2209">Non-magical hero options.Thieves in OD&amp;D, AD&amp;D, and Basic were completely second class combat characters compared to everybody else and were pretty terrible at non-magical skills.Fighters were OK, with decent attacks and sturdyness in the pre 3e era, but were kind of dependent on magic items to really shine although in AD&amp;D to have great strength scores, later on the huge boost of specialization, and in some versions two weapon fighting you could do really well out of the gate (unless you hit any of the many monsters that require magic to hit). In 1e non-magical fighters were second class though to the magical fighter paladins and rangers who got everything fighter plus special bonuses.In 5e there are a ton of spellcasting and magical classes and just the fighter and rogue for base non-magical classes, and even those have explicitly magical subclasses. Plus many races have magic and a lot of the feats give magic. You kind of have to really want to plan on being non-magical to get such a 5e character.&nbsp;4e was probably the best for this with the ability to do a whole competent and balanced martial party and to use inherent bonuses to go without magic items and have the default math work.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Voadam, post: 9606759, member: 2209"] Non-magical hero options. Thieves in OD&D, AD&D, and Basic were completely second class combat characters compared to everybody else and were pretty terrible at non-magical skills. Fighters were OK, with decent attacks and sturdyness in the pre 3e era, but were kind of dependent on magic items to really shine although in AD&D to have great strength scores, later on the huge boost of specialization, and in some versions two weapon fighting you could do really well out of the gate (unless you hit any of the many monsters that require magic to hit). In 1e non-magical fighters were second class though to the magical fighter paladins and rangers who got everything fighter plus special bonuses. In 5e there are a ton of spellcasting and magical classes and just the fighter and rogue for base non-magical classes, and even those have explicitly magical subclasses. Plus many races have magic and a lot of the feats give magic. You kind of have to really want to plan on being non-magical to get such a 5e character. 4e was probably the best for this with the ability to do a whole competent and balanced martial party and to use inherent bonuses to go without magic items and have the default math work. [/QUOTE]

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