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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9613676" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Certainly. Older editions of D&D had a tension (possibly intended?) where some mechanics instantiate heroic ideas or experiences, and others instantiate the opposite ("gritty" fantasy, "Fantasy Vietnam", etc.), but it's pretty clear that at the very least that that "gritty" state is something you move away from once you have proven yourself against it, which is a pretty heroic fantasy idea, just one that forces you to repeatedly run the gauntlet until skill or (mostly) luck gets you through it.Later editions, in part because of the influence of Dragonlance and the popularity of a less-strident version of its playstyle*, have very intentionally moved away from having that tension. The fog of war simply isn't a design goal of modern D&D, and messiness of combat, while not actively shunned per se, isn't a priority for a variety of reasons. Biggest is probably just that having any system at all means there are reliable elements, and second biggest is that the needed swinginess required to overcome the reliability induced by having a system of combat just isn't very popular. Folks like feeling that their skill matters more than dumb luck, and "I showed my skill by just winning before things ever happened" has the serious flaw of usually being anticlimactic.†*By which I mean, fully rigorous DL play has players basically taking on roles in a play, with scripted events even if the dialogue is impromptu. That style is nowhere near as popular as the much, much milder style inspired by DL, where there is no fixed plot to run, but the overall experience is still tailored to produce long-term satisfying narrative beats nonetheless. The idea that your group is effectively writing their own epic story, more or less.†Consider the enormous kerfuffles we've had about the value and place of "fudging" and very specifically its (allegedly) warranted use to prevent a meaningful opponent from getting utterly shut down by the PCs merely due to incredible luck. Folks frequently insist that having this tool there, available to preserve the challenge and emotional impact of a particular fight, is essential to players having a good time. Given those folks almost always agree that fudging shouldn't be done lightly and absolutely should not be done in such a way that it might be noticeable to players, it's clear that they (or most of them) understand that fudging in this way is a steep price to pay; their insistence that they absolutely must have the ability to do this, then, indicates just how harmful they think anticlimax must be. So if almost every fight is supposed to be won before it's started....you can see how that might be a problem in the eyes of many players and DMs alike.</blockquote>

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