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<blockquote data-quote="JPL" data-source="post: 385105" data-attributes="member: 1964">Rounser, I'm not even sure what we disagree about at this point, but I suppose I'd better keep arguing just to be on the safe side.1.&nbsp; Hackmaster is a nostalgia game.&nbsp; I have no doubt that it is a fully playable game, but it is also one big inside joke.&nbsp; It is stone dice with irony.2.&nbsp; I do not doubt the existence of &quot;feel&quot;, but I think that in this case a lot of us old-school gamers just feel an enormous swelling of love and affection when we see the complex and broken rules that we grew up with.&nbsp; If it is some quality other than the old-school rules which generates this feeling of nostalgia...then I kind of wish Hackmaster was a fully-3rd Edition-compliant d20 book, so that whatever elusive Gygaxian spirit it captures could be shared with a wider audience.3.&nbsp; What I can't understand is this attitude in the nerd community that Sulu should have his own show, Hal Jordan must always be the Green Lantern, and it's not really D&amp;D if you're playing a dwarf paladin whose AC goes up as he adds armor.I take that back --- I do understand that attitude.&nbsp; A lot of the time, I share that attitude.&nbsp; What I don't understand is when folks get it in their heads that hardcore old-school fanboys somehow represent the One True Path and that anything which deviates from the Path is &quot;not really _______&quot;.&nbsp; 4.&nbsp; For example:&nbsp; &quot;My point is simply this; How much more would have WOTC's sales been had they put out a product that tried to include some of us old fans.&quot;Well, they had DiTerzelli draw the planetouched.&nbsp; Gygax is writing in Dragon again AND producing new D&amp;D stuff.&nbsp; Everyone has a different idea of what would constitute a &quot;faithful&quot; 3rd edition product, and there will always be someone bellyaching about Wolverine being too tall or organic webshooters. &nbsp; What WotC has done is opened up the door so that you and your buddies can make as may grognardian Against the Giants on the Keep in the Borderlands products as you choose.&nbsp; And if that ain't enough, they have given the go-ahead for Hackmaster, so you can make sure that your hobby remains sufficiently unpopular to maintain its purity. 5.&quot;It just seems to be a bad idea to alienate part of the customer base that has been buying the brand for years since they are the ones that will stay with it for even more years to come&quot;D&amp;D has always evolved --- With each step in the evolution, there's been someone left behind.&nbsp; Alienating part of the old customer base probably comes with every attempt to increase the overall customer base.&nbsp; And with each generation of D&amp;D, there comes a handful of fans who will, in fact, be with it for years to come.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JPL, post: 385105, member: 1964"] Rounser, I'm not even sure what we disagree about at this point, but I suppose I'd better keep arguing just to be on the safe side. 1. Hackmaster is a nostalgia game. I have no doubt that it is a fully playable game, but it is also one big inside joke. It is stone dice with irony. 2. I do not doubt the existence of "feel", but I think that in this case a lot of us old-school gamers just feel an enormous swelling of love and affection when we see the complex and broken rules that we grew up with. If it is some quality other than the old-school rules which generates this feeling of nostalgia...then I kind of wish Hackmaster was a fully-3rd Edition-compliant d20 book, so that whatever elusive Gygaxian spirit it captures could be shared with a wider audience. 3. What I can't understand is this attitude in the nerd community that Sulu should have his own show, Hal Jordan must always be the Green Lantern, and it's not really D&D if you're playing a dwarf paladin whose AC goes up as he adds armor. I take that back --- I do understand that attitude. A lot of the time, I share that attitude. What I don't understand is when folks get it in their heads that hardcore old-school fanboys somehow represent the One True Path and that anything which deviates from the Path is "not really _______". 4. For example: "My point is simply this; How much more would have WOTC's sales been had they put out a product that tried to include some of us old fans." Well, they had DiTerzelli draw the planetouched. Gygax is writing in Dragon again AND producing new D&D stuff. Everyone has a different idea of what would constitute a "faithful" 3rd edition product, and there will always be someone bellyaching about Wolverine being too tall or organic webshooters. What WotC has done is opened up the door so that you and your buddies can make as may grognardian Against the Giants on the Keep in the Borderlands products as you choose. And if that ain't enough, they have given the go-ahead for Hackmaster, so you can make sure that your hobby remains sufficiently unpopular to maintain its purity. 5. "It just seems to be a bad idea to alienate part of the customer base that has been buying the brand for years since they are the ones that will stay with it for even more years to come" D&D has always evolved --- With each step in the evolution, there's been someone left behind. Alienating part of the old customer base probably comes with every attempt to increase the overall customer base. And with each generation of D&D, there comes a handful of fans who will, in fact, be with it for years to come. [/QUOTE]

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