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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9244322" data-attributes="member: 4937">D&amp;D style ones?&nbsp;&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; Even say World of Tanks uses the hit point much more like D&amp;D than not.&nbsp; What is really interesting about that is I spent the whole 1980s and half the 1990s with literally everyone you talked to claiming how D&amp;D was bad game because it used hit points and hit points weren't realistic.&nbsp; Yet, find how many video games use cRPG alternatives like wound tracks or wound tables.Diablo and so basically every Diablo clone.&nbsp; Dark Souls and so every Souls-like.&nbsp; War of Warcraft and so basically every MMO.&nbsp; Mass Effect. Team Fortress.&nbsp; Darkest Dungeon.&nbsp; Hell Let Loose has classes.&nbsp; On and on and on.Minor variations.&nbsp; A few will use class to set your starting bonuses and then have similar rewards on obtaining a level no matter which class you started with, but this is still leveling.&nbsp; What the expectation should be for those that say OD&amp;D sucks is that classes should have completely disappeared as a concept.&nbsp; Again, I spent the whole of the 1980s and 1990s listening to every 20 something theorist tell me how classes sucked because they weren't realistic.&nbsp; Turns out &quot;realistic&quot; isn't the standard a game is judged by, or for that matter that alternative systems aren't realistic either.OK.&nbsp; Sure.&nbsp; How many games are out there where you have some sort of XP and a table which says that for a given amount of XP your level increases and then you get new rewards?&nbsp; I mean even something like Vampire Survivors works that way.&nbsp; Star Dew Valley works that way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9244322, member: 4937"] D&D style ones? Absolutely. Even say World of Tanks uses the hit point much more like D&D than not. What is really interesting about that is I spent the whole 1980s and half the 1990s with literally everyone you talked to claiming how D&D was bad game because it used hit points and hit points weren't realistic. Yet, find how many video games use cRPG alternatives like wound tracks or wound tables. Diablo and so basically every Diablo clone. Dark Souls and so every Souls-like. War of Warcraft and so basically every MMO. Mass Effect. Team Fortress. Darkest Dungeon. Hell Let Loose has classes. On and on and on. Minor variations. A few will use class to set your starting bonuses and then have similar rewards on obtaining a level no matter which class you started with, but this is still leveling. What the expectation should be for those that say OD&D sucks is that classes should have completely disappeared as a concept. Again, I spent the whole of the 1980s and 1990s listening to every 20 something theorist tell me how classes sucked because they weren't realistic. Turns out "realistic" isn't the standard a game is judged by, or for that matter that alternative systems aren't realistic either. OK. Sure. How many games are out there where you have some sort of XP and a table which says that for a given amount of XP your level increases and then you get new rewards? I mean even something like Vampire Survivors works that way. Star Dew Valley works that way. [/QUOTE]

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