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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9246350" data-attributes="member: 4937">I often wonder if some people's tastes and opinions have never been criticized.&nbsp; Of course, we are &quot;yucking other people's yum&quot; in this thread.&nbsp; That was inevitable.&nbsp; I'm on record as thinking 3.X D&amp;D is one of the greatest games ever made.&nbsp; Am I supposed to get super offended that some people disagree and say it's the worst?&nbsp; Is the opinion supposed to be offensive to me or something?&nbsp; Oh no, someone yucked my yum?&nbsp; To arms!?!?I've always liked a lot of things people don't like and there have always been people more than happy to tell me that what I like sucks.&nbsp; Heck, in a different thread I'd be happy to discuss all the ways some of my favorite games/systems like CoC 7e, D&amp;D 3.0e, and WEG D6 Star Wars suck despite in my opinion being incredible games.&nbsp; D&amp;D sucks is something I've been hearing from both nerds and non-nerds for over 40 years now.&nbsp; I really would like to take the next step beyond discussing what games we hate and focusing like the OP said on why mechanics are bad.&nbsp; Like the post with &quot;Most of these skills are self-evident&quot; is a great example of terrible design and writing not just because what the skill does is not self-evident, but if the skills are that vaguely defined by the system they probably don't do much of anything.&nbsp; When exactly does a &quot;Guerilla Warfare&quot; roll apply that no other more generic skill wouldn't?&nbsp;&nbsp; I see lists like that and if it's a big warning flag not to take those things as skills because they probably don't come up much or have much of an impact if they do.&nbsp; I think I have a pretty good handle on what makes for an excellent skill system, and it's not that.&nbsp;&nbsp; For a modern game that's just a terrible understanding of how to have a good skill system and it's also to me a sign of poor play testing, because one way to play test a skill system is play a lot and then ask, &quot;Which skills never came up in play?&quot;&nbsp; Those skills probably should be eliminated or bundled into something else. That said, there are a few glorious mechanics in the Aliens RPG and it's not the worst thing I've ever played and problematic skill systems are one of the most common things in a game design.&nbsp; CoC and WEG D6 Star Wars both have this problem with a poorly defined skill system as well, though nothing I've encountered comes close to the mess GURPS is when it comes to skills.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9246350, member: 4937"] I often wonder if some people's tastes and opinions have never been criticized. Of course, we are "yucking other people's yum" in this thread. That was inevitable. I'm on record as thinking 3.X D&D is one of the greatest games ever made. Am I supposed to get super offended that some people disagree and say it's the worst? Is the opinion supposed to be offensive to me or something? Oh no, someone yucked my yum? To arms!?!? I've always liked a lot of things people don't like and there have always been people more than happy to tell me that what I like sucks. Heck, in a different thread I'd be happy to discuss all the ways some of my favorite games/systems like CoC 7e, D&D 3.0e, and WEG D6 Star Wars suck despite in my opinion being incredible games. D&D sucks is something I've been hearing from both nerds and non-nerds for over 40 years now. I really would like to take the next step beyond discussing what games we hate and focusing like the OP said on why mechanics are bad. Like the post with "Most of these skills are self-evident" is a great example of terrible design and writing not just because what the skill does is not self-evident, but if the skills are that vaguely defined by the system they probably don't do much of anything. When exactly does a "Guerilla Warfare" roll apply that no other more generic skill wouldn't? I see lists like that and if it's a big warning flag not to take those things as skills because they probably don't come up much or have much of an impact if they do. I think I have a pretty good handle on what makes for an excellent skill system, and it's not that. For a modern game that's just a terrible understanding of how to have a good skill system and it's also to me a sign of poor play testing, because one way to play test a skill system is play a lot and then ask, "Which skills never came up in play?" Those skills probably should be eliminated or bundled into something else. That said, there are a few glorious mechanics in the Aliens RPG and it's not the worst thing I've ever played and problematic skill systems are one of the most common things in a game design. CoC and WEG D6 Star Wars both have this problem with a poorly defined skill system as well, though nothing I've encountered comes close to the mess GURPS is when it comes to skills. [/QUOTE]

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