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<blockquote data-quote="PapersAndPaychecks" data-source="post: 5137712" data-attributes="member: 28854">This is my personal view, not a definitive statement.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Imagine a Venn diagram with three ellipses that overlap.&nbsp; One's labelled &quot;OSR&quot;, one's labelled &quot;Retro-clone&quot; and one's labelled &quot;New wave of pre-3e material.&quot;&nbsp; (Optionally, envisage that the &quot;Retro-clone&quot; ellipse actually overlaps a fourth ellipse called &quot;Open Gaming movement&quot;.)BFRPG, OSRIC, LL and S&amp;W are somewhere in the &quot;Retro-clone&quot; ellipse, while (say) &quot;People of the Pit&quot; is in the bit where &quot;Retro-clone&quot; overlaps &quot;New wave&quot;.&nbsp; Aside from that they're neutral: not necessarily part of the OSR, but not necessarily out of it either.Hackmaster and C&amp;C aren't in the &quot;Retro-clone&quot; ellipse, not being precisely retro-clones, but they're arguably somewhere in the &quot;New wave&quot;.In the way that I'm using words, the OSR is that bit of the blogosphere and the forumsphere where people discuss and often proselytise material that they believe to be &quot;old-school&quot;.So for example there are people who evangelise for C&amp;C, who would be in the &quot;New wave&quot; and in the &quot;OSR&quot; but not necessarily in the &quot;Retro-clone&quot; movement.&nbsp; (Interestingly, Gary Gygax himself, in his later years, would have been one of these.)&nbsp; Or for example, Joe Browning of Expeditious Retreat would be in the &quot;Retro-clone&quot; movement and squarely in the middle of the &quot;New wave&quot;, but a quick look at his blog would tell you that Joe isn't really in the OSR.Does that make sense?&nbsp; All this is crystal clear to me but I fear I might be having trouble explaining it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="PapersAndPaychecks, post: 5137712, member: 28854"] This is my personal view, not a definitive statement. :) Imagine a Venn diagram with three ellipses that overlap. One's labelled "OSR", one's labelled "Retro-clone" and one's labelled "New wave of pre-3e material." (Optionally, envisage that the "Retro-clone" ellipse actually overlaps a fourth ellipse called "Open Gaming movement".) BFRPG, OSRIC, LL and S&W are somewhere in the "Retro-clone" ellipse, while (say) "People of the Pit" is in the bit where "Retro-clone" overlaps "New wave". Aside from that they're neutral: not necessarily part of the OSR, but not necessarily out of it either. Hackmaster and C&C aren't in the "Retro-clone" ellipse, not being precisely retro-clones, but they're arguably somewhere in the "New wave". In the way that I'm using words, the OSR is that bit of the blogosphere and the forumsphere where people discuss and often proselytise material that they believe to be "old-school". So for example there are people who evangelise for C&C, who would be in the "New wave" and in the "OSR" but not necessarily in the "Retro-clone" movement. (Interestingly, Gary Gygax himself, in his later years, would have been one of these.) Or for example, Joe Browning of Expeditious Retreat would be in the "Retro-clone" movement and squarely in the middle of the "New wave", but a quick look at his blog would tell you that Joe isn't really in the OSR. Does that make sense? All this is crystal clear to me but I fear I might be having trouble explaining it. [/QUOTE]

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