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<blockquote data-quote="Jeff Wilder" data-source="post: 4443992" data-attributes="member: 5122">I don't understand.&nbsp; A fighter/wizard 9 (character level 12) is giving up (as a fighter) +3 BAB, 2 bonus feats, a general feat (two, in Pathfinder), 3d10+Con HP, +2 Fort save, and +1 Ref save, or (as a wizard) one-and-a-half levels of spell progression, three caster levels, a bonus feat, a general feat (two, in Pathfinder), +2 Will save, +1 Fort save, and three levels of familiar progression.What more does the character need to give up?I have a feeling people are looking at this suggestion and still thinking partially in current multiclass rules, where this fighter/wizard 9 is a fighter 9/wizard 9 and gets (for example) 9d10+9d4+Con HP or whatever.&nbsp; The fighter/wizard 9 doesn't get similar charater features twice ... it just takes the best from among its constituent classes.I'm not a big fan of ECL, generally speaking, either.&nbsp; But you've overlooked the fact that when it comes to class-features progression -- especially, but not limited to, spellcasting -- the features are getting more powerful as a proportion of character power, not less.If you're a goliath (+1 ECL), the difference at 9th level is probably not even noticeable.&nbsp; If you're a wizard, the difference is 5th level spells.&nbsp; That's a huge distinction, and it has to be balanced.&nbsp; I have so far been unable to think of a better way to do it, while keeping the rules recognizable, than ECL.I simply don't understand this.&nbsp; If a fighter/wizard 15 (ECL 20) is &quot;behind his single class peers&quot; (i.e., those at 20th level), where exactly should he be?&nbsp; Just how much more powerful should he be?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jeff Wilder, post: 4443992, member: 5122"] I don't understand. A fighter/wizard 9 (character level 12) is giving up (as a fighter) +3 BAB, 2 bonus feats, a general feat (two, in Pathfinder), 3d10+Con HP, +2 Fort save, and +1 Ref save, or (as a wizard) one-and-a-half levels of spell progression, three caster levels, a bonus feat, a general feat (two, in Pathfinder), +2 Will save, +1 Fort save, and three levels of familiar progression. What more does the character need to give up? I have a feeling people are looking at this suggestion and still thinking partially in current multiclass rules, where this fighter/wizard 9 is a fighter 9/wizard 9 and gets (for example) 9d10+9d4+Con HP or whatever. The fighter/wizard 9 doesn't get similar charater features twice ... it just takes the best from among its constituent classes. I'm not a big fan of ECL, generally speaking, either. But you've overlooked the fact that when it comes to class-features progression -- especially, but not limited to, spellcasting -- the features are getting [i]more[/i] powerful as a proportion of character power, not less. If you're a goliath (+1 ECL), the difference at 9th level is probably not even noticeable. If you're a wizard, the difference is 5th level spells. That's a [i]huge[/i] distinction, and it has to be balanced. I have so far been unable to think of a better way to do it, while keeping the rules recognizable, than ECL. I simply don't understand this. If a fighter/wizard 15 (ECL 20) is "behind his single class peers" (i.e., those at 20th level), where exactly [i]should[/i] he be? Just how much more powerful should he be? [/QUOTE]

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