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What is player agency to you?
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9078896" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>Fully agreed.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree but I'd add that I think you'd see even more balking if what was being proposed was a similar DM side mechanic for DM's to use to establish NPC memories that disadvantage their players.</p><p></p><p></p><p>At least until the DM uses the general play loop of asking questions to allow you to add those details. Not my claim either.</p><p></p><p>That said the structure of PbtA is so different to D&D because if advantageous lore is being given by the DM or delegated to the Player in PbtA it's because the player already succeeded on a check to have pertinent and advantageous Lore. I do think that context often gets glossed over and is very pertinent to a player with a D&D mindset.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm fairly certain I mentioned all those things when I first brought them up in this thread. I explicitly said they had a cost and you had to roll high and have strong enough effect to have the flashback be successful.</p><p></p><p>And I also agree that flashbacks in play of BitD don't feel like an issue - it's more when people step back and analyze games that people tend to dislike the notion of them more than they tend to be bothered by them in practice. (Kind of like when some people analyze D&D games I guess).</p><p></p><p>*Note one of the hardest parts for my D&D group to get used to in BitD was the equipment being abstract till needed. They all wanted to pre specify. I found that very interesting.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It always baffles me how having something simply gated behind a dice roll so fundamentally changes that nature of what's happening for some people. Not saying your wrong, but i think most of us in my opinions orbit don't really find that difference to be particularly meaningful. Whether the player declares it and just gets it 100% of the time or declares it and just gets it 50% of the time, or 25% of the time or whatever the percentage is doesn't move the needle around what's occurring for us.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 9078896, member: 6795602"] Fully agreed. I agree but I'd add that I think you'd see even more balking if what was being proposed was a similar DM side mechanic for DM's to use to establish NPC memories that disadvantage their players. At least until the DM uses the general play loop of asking questions to allow you to add those details. Not my claim either. That said the structure of PbtA is so different to D&D because if advantageous lore is being given by the DM or delegated to the Player in PbtA it's because the player already succeeded on a check to have pertinent and advantageous Lore. I do think that context often gets glossed over and is very pertinent to a player with a D&D mindset. I'm fairly certain I mentioned all those things when I first brought them up in this thread. I explicitly said they had a cost and you had to roll high and have strong enough effect to have the flashback be successful. And I also agree that flashbacks in play of BitD don't feel like an issue - it's more when people step back and analyze games that people tend to dislike the notion of them more than they tend to be bothered by them in practice. (Kind of like when some people analyze D&D games I guess). *Note one of the hardest parts for my D&D group to get used to in BitD was the equipment being abstract till needed. They all wanted to pre specify. I found that very interesting. It always baffles me how having something simply gated behind a dice roll so fundamentally changes that nature of what's happening for some people. Not saying your wrong, but i think most of us in my opinions orbit don't really find that difference to be particularly meaningful. Whether the player declares it and just gets it 100% of the time or declares it and just gets it 50% of the time, or 25% of the time or whatever the percentage is doesn't move the needle around what's occurring for us. [/QUOTE]
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