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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9082981" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Yeah, it's that specific thing, the &quot;will you get any use at all out of this feature? Find out next time, on Dungeon Master Z!&quot; I see far too much effort put into giving reasons why things players might try to do definitely can't work, and very, very little effort into trying to find a way so that it can work, or at least to meet in the middle on stuff.I hear, very, very frequently, people complain about how terrible players are. That they will cheat, swindle, exploit, blatantly twist wording, ride roughshod no matter what, etc. Essentially, that every player should be presumed to play in bad faith. That you absolutely must have the Hobbesian strong, central authority who can suppress the bellum omnium contra omnes long enough to permit an actually enjoyable game to occur. And under those lights, these folks claim they are perfectly justified in shutting down basically anything players seek, with or without reason--because shutting folks down is cutting off such exploitation in advance, implicitly.The problem comes in when that does happen...which is why PbtA advocates &quot;fail forward,&quot; so things DO actually move on and don't just sit there spinning wheels because nothing can happen until the players stop failing at something. This also highlights exactly why high lethality is an issue for a lot of players. It feels, to us, like a failure which cannot be continued. Everything stops cold because, y'know, you're dead.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9082981, member: 6790260"] Yeah, it's that specific thing, the "will you get any use at all out of this feature? Find out next time, on Dungeon Master Z!" I see far too much effort put into giving reasons why things players might try to do definitely can't work, and very, [I]very[/I] little effort into trying to find a way so that it [I]can[/I] work, or at least to meet in the middle on stuff. I hear, very, very frequently, people complain about how terrible players are. That they will cheat, swindle, exploit, blatantly twist wording, ride roughshod no matter what, etc. Essentially, that [I]every player[/I] should be presumed to play in bad faith. That you absolutely [I]must[/I] have the Hobbesian strong, central authority who can suppress the [I]bellum omnium contra omnes[/I] long enough to permit an actually enjoyable game to occur. And under those lights, these folks claim they are perfectly justified in shutting down basically anything players seek, with or without reason--because shutting folks down is cutting off such exploitation in advance, implicitly. The problem comes in when that does happen...which is why PbtA advocates "fail forward," so things DO actually move on and don't just sit there spinning wheels because nothing can happen until the players stop failing at something. This also highlights exactly why high lethality is an issue for a lot of players. It feels, to us, like a failure which [I]cannot[/I] be continued. Everything stops cold because, y'know, you're [I]dead[/I]. [/QUOTE]

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