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What is player agency to you?
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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9084836" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>Of course it matters. If expectations don't align, something went wrong and someone should go find a group where expectations align. You don't get to expect the DM to conform to you or vice versa unless expectations were established at the outset.</p><p></p><p>The lifeless plane was not only not nonsense, it had specific purpose which I stated. It was direct at the folks saying the ability should <strong>always</strong> work. If that's their expectation, then they believe it should work on the lifeless plane. If they don't think it should work on the lifeless plane, then they don't think it should always work. </p><p></p><p>That answer to that detail is critical, because if they truly do believe in always and that it should work on a lifeless plane, then rational discourse can't happen and I should bow out. If they don't believe in always, then we can start working towards finding out where the line should be drawn where it's okay not to allow the ability to work.</p><p></p><p>As for the duke vacationing, I do find that compelling. Is the duke expected to know from wherever he is that a noble is knocking and grant that person the right to stay? His staff likely don't have the authority to do it. That's the problem with "compelling." It's subjective.</p><p></p><p>No. That's patently false. It almost surely has nothing to do with wanting their ideas to matter more. I can decide that the most logical response is that the noble is refused for whatever valid reason without wanting my decisions to matter more than yours. You don't get to ascribe motivations for to us for why we do things. We get to tell you OUR motivations.</p><p></p><p>40 years of playing and DMing and not once have I ever thought to myself, "Self, I want my ideas to matter more than anyone else's, so I need to make X decision."</p><p></p><p>The rules put the decision making on me for D&D and no rule is without exception. Specific beats general and a specific circumstance such as the duke not being home beats the general ability.</p><p></p><p>Well, sure. If you fictionalize motivations for us that just plain aren't there like "Wanting our ideas to matter more than yours" and "players can't be trusted," then sure your false attributions will make it hard for you to see this as anything but "an argument to preserve DM authority."</p><p></p><p>Reality matters, though, and the reality is that those motives are not something you can force upon us. When you try you fail and just make yourself look really bad. Don't do it. Respond to what we say, not motives you are inventing in your head.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 9084836, member: 23751"] Of course it matters. If expectations don't align, something went wrong and someone should go find a group where expectations align. You don't get to expect the DM to conform to you or vice versa unless expectations were established at the outset. The lifeless plane was not only not nonsense, it had specific purpose which I stated. It was direct at the folks saying the ability should [B]always[/B] work. If that's their expectation, then they believe it should work on the lifeless plane. If they don't think it should work on the lifeless plane, then they don't think it should always work. That answer to that detail is critical, because if they truly do believe in always and that it should work on a lifeless plane, then rational discourse can't happen and I should bow out. If they don't believe in always, then we can start working towards finding out where the line should be drawn where it's okay not to allow the ability to work. As for the duke vacationing, I do find that compelling. Is the duke expected to know from wherever he is that a noble is knocking and grant that person the right to stay? His staff likely don't have the authority to do it. That's the problem with "compelling." It's subjective. No. That's patently false. It almost surely has nothing to do with wanting their ideas to matter more. I can decide that the most logical response is that the noble is refused for whatever valid reason without wanting my decisions to matter more than yours. You don't get to ascribe motivations for to us for why we do things. We get to tell you OUR motivations. 40 years of playing and DMing and not once have I ever thought to myself, "Self, I want my ideas to matter more than anyone else's, so I need to make X decision." The rules put the decision making on me for D&D and no rule is without exception. Specific beats general and a specific circumstance such as the duke not being home beats the general ability. Well, sure. If you fictionalize motivations for us that just plain aren't there like "Wanting our ideas to matter more than yours" and "players can't be trusted," then sure your false attributions will make it hard for you to see this as anything but "an argument to preserve DM authority." Reality matters, though, and the reality is that those motives are not something you can force upon us. When you try you fail and just make yourself look really bad. Don't do it. Respond to what we say, not motives you are inventing in your head. [/QUOTE]
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