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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mamba" data-source="post: 9091081" data-attributes="member: 7034611">I guess I was not really asking that.... I knew the answer already, as my post was supposed to showWhat lead to this was the following exchange:me: "I do not see a fundamental difference between steering the game by denying an audience and steering the game via having the chars find black arrows"you: "I'm pretty sure I quoted the text upthread from the Burning Wheel rulebook, that tells the player that "If the story doesn't interest you, it's your job to create interesting situations and involve yourself""[not really sure how that is an answer, but I ran with it instead of asking. I then tried a different approach to get to the answer I was looking for]me: "how is that different from the players finding another way to accomplish their goal after the audience was denied, or setting new goals altogether?"you: "It is about creating interesting situations. It's not about setting goals. Nor looking for new ways to accomplish goals."me: "so where do goals and the actions to accomplish them come from?"What I really am still looking for is the answer to my original question, so let me rephrase that:I see no fundamental difference between steering the game by denying an audience and steering the game via having the chars find black arrows. To me this is a difference in degree only. Why do you think / insist that it is more than that?</blockquote>