NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9093563" data-attributes="member: 6795602">That's fair.*I've never heard vanilla narativismMy first experience with D&D was some of the CRPG's.  Baulders Gate, Icewindell, etc.I don't think i played my first pen and paper game till 4e.I get that.  Though maybe there's alot of nuance in the concepts one will defend and how one's play tends to go.A few thoughts - no accusations.This point is probably more semantics but most of these discussions seem to boil down to that - at least in part.  I think there's a difference between 'creating the world' and 'driving play'.  The D&D DM still creates the world in this particular subset of play.  Players choose where to go and what to do in that world.  But as long as the world is large and accessible enough then that means the players can drive play toward just about anything in a general sense.  Now specifics might be a different story.  Players don't get carte blanche to drive play toward very specific elements that they come up with - though most dm's will work with them to get something in the ballpark added to the fiction for them to interact with.  This later type of 'driving play' seems to be more of what you have in mind, whereas the former is what I have in mind.What can be offered for evidence?*Note I'd say playing this way is definitely a minority.  IME it seems most D&D players respond better to a menu of choices and so most of the time a menu of choices is what is provided - but even if it is, most DM's aren't going to force one of the choices from that menu if the players want something not on the menu (obviously in a high DM prep game there's some external consideration given by players toward what's already been prepped - but ultimately they still have the choice of doing things that lead places the DM hasn't prepped for).</blockquote>

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