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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9094178" data-attributes="member: 82106">I'm not 100% sure what types of play are falling under the criticisms here, maybe several. I think its a perfectly good position, but in terms of the 'can the PCs get clues' part, this is a known issue with standard trad and other GM-authored "players discover the world" kinds of games. If you were approaching the problem from a narrativist perspective, the whole thing is a non-issue. There's not a specific set of clues, because there's not a specific fixed external objective 'way things are' that the players are simply learning about. I mean, different narr type games are certainly not all the same either, but typically neither the players nor the GM are privy to some sort of 'objective' set of 'facts' within the game world. At the very least there will not be some kind of set path by which things must be revealed. Clues may be instantiated and accessed via a variety of possible methods.The second part, the whole thing about people 'telling each other what happens', and particularly some weird non-existent game play where players just make up whatever story they feel like and it happens, this is nothing like any narrativist, OR trad/sim sort of play whatsoever (at least that I ever heard of). When a group of people plays something like a 'low myth' game where new fiction is going to be produced on an ongoing basis, there are rules and mechanisms within the game in question which govern that. Usually its left mostly to the GM! Like in Dungeon World, the GM makes up ALL THE FICTION, and a player has no power whatsoever to describe what an NPC does! I mean, maybe if they make a successful Parley move they get something they wanted, but first you have to trigger that move, and it has very specific trigger conditions (IE in DW you must have some leverage on the NPC). Even then, assuming you roll 10+, you aren't getting arbitrary authority over the NPC, you simply get something you wanted from them in a limited scope.</blockquote>

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