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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9105056" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Okay. Specific circumstances would be a subset, then--the intersection on the Venn diagram. The two circles are otherwise separate.So long as A⊄B, A < A∪B. If there are forms of character agency that aren't player agency, and vice-versa, then any game which excludes one of the two will necessary offer less (or "fewer types," if you prefer) than one that includes both.Yes, it would, considering I see these as pretty completely distinct things. Just because the two can coincide does not mean they are identical. I assume, then, that you can explicate further how the two (which others have seen as pretty clearly distinct) are actually the same?That's...okay. If that's how you see it, I don't think it's even possible for us to discuss it. Because that has re-defined player agency to such an extent that we would now need some new term for the thing that has, up to now, been called "player agency."From my perspective, up to this point, we've been talking about rhombuses and rectangles. Some things--squares--happen to coincidentally be both things. Your assertion reads, to me, like someone saying "so we should just call all of these figures rhombuses, because squares exist." Assuming I grant that in the first place, I would then need to say, "Okay. What about all the quadrilateral figures with four right angles but non-equal adjacent sides? We still need a name for that."Unless, of course, you can show that there is no such thing as a "rectangle" at all--that absolutely all character agency is always and identically a form of player agency. That sounds to my ear like a pretty tall order, but I'm willing to listen!Only just got to this point, so kind of funny that we came to the same point.My question is: Why do we need "player agency*" when we could just call that "player agency" (no asterisk) and use a different term for the thing you're bringing up, this idea that there's an agency superset that contains both character agency and player agency. Perhaps call it "game agency"?It seems more useful to invent a new wider category word, rather than asking everyone else to stop using the narrow category word and instead invent something else.</blockquote>

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