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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9108440" data-attributes="member: 6785785">No, I don't think it's that simple... there are degrees, and there are going to be instances that are very subjective. But that doesn't mean there's not going to be a big ol slice of venn diagram where folks can generally agree, and that can enable discussion instead of going around in the same circles. The idea that there are not degrees to this is what I think is silly. It seems incredibly obvious that there are. And for the record, I'm open to different kinds of gaming experiences, too. I don't know if I agree with what you're saying here, though. Not entirely anyway. You say you'd be okay with a railroad, as long as it's artfully done. But doesn't that just mean that you're fine with the loss of agency, as long as there's some quality that's present to justify that loss? It doesn't mean you're not losing the ability to effect change in the game, it means you don't mind losing that ability. As for your preferences toward the content of play, I think that's more social contract type stuff. If it's agreed upon beforehand to have a specific type of game, and then things go differently, I don't blame you for being dissatisfied. I don't know how much you may be able to get the other participants back on track, though, so it's hard to read it as a loss of agency in the same way as railroading. Character creation is a good example of agency, though. Or at least, one would hope it is!I'm not throwing jabs at anyone. I like 5e. I like many other games as well, but I've almost exclusively been speaking about 5e in this thread. I have no problem recognizing the ways in which 5e limits player agency, and why. Generally speaking, anyway... there's some real fuzziness in spots. And I think that's one of the reasons that 5e is subject to interpretation so much that whatever experience it produces for the participants can vary significantly when it comes to player agency. I think knowing what people want to achieve in the game is key to understanding what they'll consider a limit on their agency or not, sure.</blockquote>

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