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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9113156" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Golroc, Max...I mean...come on.  What are we even doing here at this point?  This is like some kind of crazy agency pea and shell game or something.Yes, we can develop a menu of the most atomized, most irrelevant, most peripheral "agency coefficients" to any activity concievable within the universe...stack them...and then pretend that somehow, agency is all the same or even tilted in favor of this list of irrelevant, atomized, peripheral nothinburger list of things!Yes, if we (a) detach anything resembling a unifying process and goal of experience and then (b) utterly atomize all related undertakings and incorporate all manner of irrelevant, peripheral activities (why don't we include the agency to breathe every 2 seconds vs 5...or the agency to sort the almonds in our trailmix vs the cranberries!)...then yes, in that WTF case...no concept of "higher or lower agency" can be evaluated.  But at this point...what_are_we_even_doing?There is no way this conversation can take place outside of ENWorld.  Humans in meatspace just won't tolerate this kind of whatever-it-is-we're-trying-to-do-here.EDIT:  If we're talking about agency as it pertains to sport, we're talking about the capacity to impact the gamestate and achieve the win condition.  We aren't talking about peripheral, atomized activities that have nothing to do with this.  So yes, spectators have lower agency than participants, and yes, parents/guardians watching their children/wards play is the exemplar here.  A parent having the agency to chew their nails and shout "COME ON JIMMY" vs engage in the wave is utterly irrelevant to agency as it pertains to sport.  Bringing in another kind of agency is just a pea and shell game.  And if you try to have this weirdly contorting, pivoting conversation with a human being outside of this arena, it absolutely won't work.</blockquote>

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