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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9118671" data-attributes="member: 42582">I believe that only two posters in this thread have given you technical replies about Burning Wheel: me, and [USER=59]@Citizen Mane[/USER]. A third, [USER=16586]@Campbell[/USER], has made some general remarks about the system.Other posters - especially [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER] and [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] - have posted about techniques in Dungeon World. This is a different RPG from Burning Wheel. As per AbdulAlhazred's post not far upthread, resolution in Dungeon World is not "intent and task" coupled with "say 'yes' or roll the dice"; rather, it's "if you do it, you do it".I have been quite clear about the role of Wises, Scavenging, Circles etc in Burning Wheel play. And have given examples from play, such as Aramina recalling the location of Evard's tower (successful Great Masters-wise), Thurgon looking for spellbooks in it, and instead finding his mother's childhood letters (failed Scavenging), Jobe looking for the Falcon's Claw and instead finding black arrows (failed Scavenging), Thurgon together with Aramina meeting Friedrich and Rufus (successful Circles).Here's another episode of play:I'll say more about this in a moment, relating it to the following:In the example of play I just posted, we can see a few things happening that warrant technical exposition:*Aedhros, following his Instinct, quietly sings the Elven lays. The GM frames a scene in which this gets him into trouble. *Aedhros has the Belief Never admit that I am wrong and the Instinct Always repay hurt with hurt, and so sets out to humiliate the official. As this goes directly to these core, player-authored priorities for the character, a roll is called for. It succeeds. *I can't recall, and the actual play doesn't record, how the GM adjudicated failure on Ugly Truth. Maybe that was the trigger for Alicia to wake up and join the scene? Alicia's player asks if there is anything shining in the - *ahem- dark. As GM, I don't call for a test - I say "yes", and go straight to framing a scene that will speak to her Instinct - she sees the glint of a key that the official conceals inside his trousers. *Alicia steals it, acting on Instinct and in pursuit of her Belief that I will one day be rich enough to BUY a ship. Again, a roll is called for by the GM. It succeeds. *Aedhros, acting on his Belief, tries to lift the key from Alicia. Again, a roll is called for by the GM. It succeeds. *Alicia, still in pursuit of her Belief about wealth, asks what the key opens. Again, a roll is called for by the GM, and her spell (Persuasion) succeeds. The player does not declare any sort of Wises or similar check (such as "Everyone knows that the only petty official with a big key is the keeper of the harbour levies"). So it is thrown back to me as GM, and I introduce an element that will speak to Alicia's Belief: there's a strong room, which the key opens.I've unpacked because it illustrates several of your (that is, [USER=59]@Citizen Mane[/USER]'s) points.*There is no map. There is a place - Hardby, a rough and tumble pulp-ish port, whose docks host drunken sailors, Half-Orc thugs (anyone who is curious can read more of the linked actual play), and petty officials with their strong rooms, among other things. But there is no map, no key, no list of denizens. The play example shows people and places being authored as they are needed to frame scenes and keep things moving. *Those things follow the player-authored priorities for their PCs. Why do we care about keys hidden in the trousers of officials? Because Alicia steals whatever glints in the dark! Why strong rooms? Because Alicia longs for wealth, so she can buy her own ship. *There is no reason for a player to declare a "silly" action, like randomly looking for piles of gold and vorpal swords. The players have created these PCs - Aedhros and Alicia - presumably because they want to play [i[them[/i]. If they wanted to play Harold the Excessively Hopeful Pirate, they would have written up him instead. Or likewise my mooted character with Faeries-wise, who looks for pots of gold left under tree roots.That last points leads directly back to the discussion about gaming the GM and "fictional positioning trickery". In a game in which scenes are framed and consequences narrated around player-authored priorities for their PCs, why would anyone bother? You don't need to game the GM to have an opportunity that speaks directly to your character made a part of play: that's the core logic of the game.Here's another example of play, from the first session of Aedhros and Alicia:There is no reason for me to declare aimless, pointless actions such as that Aedhros looks behind water barrels for sacks of gold. I declare something core to the character - he picks the ship master's pocket! The 1D of gold is agreed by me and the GM as an appropriate element in the framing. (If I had wanted more, then the GM could legitimately have called for a test on Wealth-wise or Ship Master's-wise or similar, to establish that I am indeed correct that this is a gold-filled pocket - a test which I probably would have failed!)<a href="https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/burning-wheel-first-burning-wheel-session.736425/" target="_blank">Here</a>'s another example of play, from the first session of Burning Wheel that I ever GMed:Jobe's player does not need to game me, as GM, to have the opportunity to find something angelic that might help him deal with his Balrog-possessed brother: that's the first scene that I frame him into!From the technical point of view, it's worth noting that the Aura Reading test plays the role that my conjectured Wealth-wise or Ship's master-wise test would have played, had I (playing Aedhros) aspired to get more than the barest 1D of coins from the picked pocket of the ship's master.This is why I don't take seriously, until I'm provided with actual example or plausible conjecture, these repeated suggestions about the player gaming the GM. There are no advantages to be gained by manipulation that are not more easily obtained just by playing your character honestly and with verve.The whole framing of "a player can any time hope to find a secret door" rests on the premise that this is a meaningful move in play. Sometimes it will be - I posted an example, upthread, from the Adventure Burner.Here's another example where rather than a secret door it was a vessel to catch blood in (as best I recall, the situation was being resolved via Fight!, and Tru-Leigh's player declared an Assess action to look for vessels in the room):But most of the time players won't be declaring actions to observe vessels for catching blood, because it's not salient. Similarly for the finding of secret doors. Or the looking for piles of gold.</blockquote>

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