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What is player agency to you?
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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9119135" data-attributes="member: 6684958"><p>Again, I am just describing one type of many games. Just because a game has one or two things mentioned, does not mean it's that type of game: it has to have all or most of the things mentioned.</p><p></p><p>All D&D games use dice, so if someone was to say "any game that uses dice must be a type X game" that is just silly. You have to have more to a description. </p><p></p><p>I realize that as you say you have never played a Casual Game, and have never heard or seen of anyone every playing such a game. I will tell you they are quite common, maybe the most common type of game. A couple of people want to play "a game", so they pick a random game (though far too likely to randomly pick D&D 5E only). Then they get together for a night of relaxing, goofing off, snacks, drinks, and rolling dice to somewhat play "the game". </p><p></p><p></p><p>Every GM has a different level of prep, from 'a lot' to 'none'. </p><p></p><p>Yea, not a fan of pre written vague 'processes' vs my imagination.</p><p></p><p>Except the GM makes the Random Encounter Table. But it's still not close to the 'processes' your talking about. The player does not say "I keep an eye out for a goblin with lots of gold", make a roll rule check, and then the GM says "there is a goblin with lots of gold right next to your character!"</p><p></p><p>Well, just the general definitions and ideas used by posters in this thread.</p><p></p><p>My idea of "collaboration" is not just the player "saying they want something in the game", and then the GM saying "yes, as you wish". </p><p></p><p>I got it. The Cinematic Cricle explanation from a couple pages back fits everything perfectly for me and make sense.</p><p></p><p>But then it's just an endless circle. </p><p></p><p>Well, any time I mention a player might do anything to really effect the game in a small, medium or big way......I get told it's "impossible". So that only leaves tiny ways to effect the game. </p><p></p><p>Well, note it won't be any of the definitions from this thread.</p><p></p><p>The group of players wanted to reclaim an old dwarf hold(they got the idea from Streams of Silver, of course). So they all made 'nobody' dwarf characters and made a lite clan and history. Then gave it to me to make all the real details. For the next [real] year or so they went on 'generic' adventures to gain fame and fortune. But they were always careful to not ruffle feathers, make enemies, and make allies. They also saved and requited every 'exile' or 'clanless' dwarf they could. Then, for the next [real] year of game play they used all their real game experience to 'make their own adventures' and set everything up for the great reclaiming march. Then finally came the year long quest to reclaim the dwarven hold. And they did...and lived happily every after. </p><p></p><p>I don't count "a character can use their architect skill to "find"(aka create) a secret door anywhere on a whim to be "player agency". Having the game play with a long term focus on what the players want, but NOT having the whole world revelove around them (like nearly any movies does). At no time can a player "just wander into the dwarf lands" and say "I keep an eye out for a high level dwarf army", then just make a roll check that succeds, and have the GM say "well, there is a dwarf army right next to you." Every single thing in the game world is there under my iron gaze. If the players find the 'lost' dwarven army emplacement that I alone created and put there, then the players are free to "try" to do whatever their characters could "try" to do (and they choose a duel of honor to defeat the army's general).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9119135, member: 6684958"] Again, I am just describing one type of many games. Just because a game has one or two things mentioned, does not mean it's that type of game: it has to have all or most of the things mentioned. All D&D games use dice, so if someone was to say "any game that uses dice must be a type X game" that is just silly. You have to have more to a description. I realize that as you say you have never played a Casual Game, and have never heard or seen of anyone every playing such a game. I will tell you they are quite common, maybe the most common type of game. A couple of people want to play "a game", so they pick a random game (though far too likely to randomly pick D&D 5E only). Then they get together for a night of relaxing, goofing off, snacks, drinks, and rolling dice to somewhat play "the game". Every GM has a different level of prep, from 'a lot' to 'none'. Yea, not a fan of pre written vague 'processes' vs my imagination. Except the GM makes the Random Encounter Table. But it's still not close to the 'processes' your talking about. The player does not say "I keep an eye out for a goblin with lots of gold", make a roll rule check, and then the GM says "there is a goblin with lots of gold right next to your character!" Well, just the general definitions and ideas used by posters in this thread. My idea of "collaboration" is not just the player "saying they want something in the game", and then the GM saying "yes, as you wish". I got it. The Cinematic Cricle explanation from a couple pages back fits everything perfectly for me and make sense. But then it's just an endless circle. Well, any time I mention a player might do anything to really effect the game in a small, medium or big way......I get told it's "impossible". So that only leaves tiny ways to effect the game. Well, note it won't be any of the definitions from this thread. The group of players wanted to reclaim an old dwarf hold(they got the idea from Streams of Silver, of course). So they all made 'nobody' dwarf characters and made a lite clan and history. Then gave it to me to make all the real details. For the next [real] year or so they went on 'generic' adventures to gain fame and fortune. But they were always careful to not ruffle feathers, make enemies, and make allies. They also saved and requited every 'exile' or 'clanless' dwarf they could. Then, for the next [real] year of game play they used all their real game experience to 'make their own adventures' and set everything up for the great reclaiming march. Then finally came the year long quest to reclaim the dwarven hold. And they did...and lived happily every after. I don't count "a character can use their architect skill to "find"(aka create) a secret door anywhere on a whim to be "player agency". Having the game play with a long term focus on what the players want, but NOT having the whole world revelove around them (like nearly any movies does). At no time can a player "just wander into the dwarf lands" and say "I keep an eye out for a high level dwarf army", then just make a roll check that succeds, and have the GM say "well, there is a dwarf army right next to you." Every single thing in the game world is there under my iron gaze. If the players find the 'lost' dwarven army emplacement that I alone created and put there, then the players are free to "try" to do whatever their characters could "try" to do (and they choose a duel of honor to defeat the army's general). [/QUOTE]
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