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What is player agency to you?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9125682" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>This claim is not self-evident, and is in fact doubtful.</p><p></p><p>A game has rules - to use the Suits notion that [USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER] favours, it involves the conventional/consensual/voluntary, self-imposition of obstacles to achieving the goal of the game. This is done because there are <em>payoffs</em> from the experience, other than simply achieving that goal. For instance, RPGing with a traditional allocation of participant roles produces a <em>shared fiction</em> with <em>characters</em>, including <em>protagonists</em>, and potentially with <em>rising action, *climax</em> and <em>resolution</em>.</p><p></p><p>Obviously the most efficient way to generate a shared fiction of that sort is to sit down and write it. Doing it via a game, like a RPG, places self-imposed obstacles in the way because the experience that results is fun. One reason it's fun is because, as a player, <em>all I have to do is declare actions for my PC</em>. (Note that I reiterate here my view that "story mechanics* are largely irrelevant to the core of the discussion about player agency in RPGing.) Another reason it's is because, as a GM, <em>all I have to do is imagine compelling situations for the protagonists</em>, without having to write out how those situations resolve. The resolution is punted to the system.</p><p></p><p>Is there a way of preserving the game of the RPG, including via the traditional allocation of participant roles, while increasing the degree of agency enjoyed by players over the shared fiction beyond what is achieved by Apocalypse World, Burning Wheel, and some other RPGs that emerge from the same set of design ideas and intellectual milieu? I'm not persuaded that there is: those systems, in different technical fashions, fully deploy the device for bridging player agency across participants roles so as to achieve player agency. That device, as I first posted in post 211, is that players</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">establish their own goals and aspirations for their PCs (including working with the group collectively to establish the appropriate backstory and setting elements to underpin those goals and aspirations), and then the GM relies on those goals and aspirations as cues for their own narration of framing and consequence</p><p></p><p>What device, consistent with the RPG allocation of roles, are you suggesting would allow even greater player agency over the content of the shared fiction?</p><p></p><p>No. It's a desire to <em>play a RPG</em> as opposed to, say, a conch-passing game. Eero Tuovinen wrote about this over a decade ago: <a href="https://isabout.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/the-pitfalls-of-narrative-technique-in-rpg-play/" target="_blank">The pitfalls of narrative technique in rpg play</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9125682, member: 42582"] This claim is not self-evident, and is in fact doubtful. A game has rules - to use the Suits notion that [USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER] favours, it involves the conventional/consensual/voluntary, self-imposition of obstacles to achieving the goal of the game. This is done because there are [I]payoffs[/I] from the experience, other than simply achieving that goal. For instance, RPGing with a traditional allocation of participant roles produces a [I]shared fiction[/I] with [I]characters[/I], including [I]protagonists[/I], and potentially with [I]rising action, *climax[/I] and [I]resolution[/I]. Obviously the most efficient way to generate a shared fiction of that sort is to sit down and write it. Doing it via a game, like a RPG, places self-imposed obstacles in the way because the experience that results is fun. One reason it's fun is because, as a player, [I]all I have to do is declare actions for my PC[/I]. (Note that I reiterate here my view that "story mechanics* are largely irrelevant to the core of the discussion about player agency in RPGing.) Another reason it's is because, as a GM, [I]all I have to do is imagine compelling situations for the protagonists[/I], without having to write out how those situations resolve. The resolution is punted to the system. Is there a way of preserving the game of the RPG, including via the traditional allocation of participant roles, while increasing the degree of agency enjoyed by players over the shared fiction beyond what is achieved by Apocalypse World, Burning Wheel, and some other RPGs that emerge from the same set of design ideas and intellectual milieu? I'm not persuaded that there is: those systems, in different technical fashions, fully deploy the device for bridging player agency across participants roles so as to achieve player agency. That device, as I first posted in post 211, is that players [indent]establish their own goals and aspirations for their PCs (including working with the group collectively to establish the appropriate backstory and setting elements to underpin those goals and aspirations), and then the GM relies on those goals and aspirations as cues for their own narration of framing and consequence[/indent] What device, consistent with the RPG allocation of roles, are you suggesting would allow even greater player agency over the content of the shared fiction? No. It's a desire to [I]play a RPG[/I] as opposed to, say, a conch-passing game. Eero Tuovinen wrote about this over a decade ago: [URL="https://isabout.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/the-pitfalls-of-narrative-technique-in-rpg-play/"]The pitfalls of narrative technique in rpg play[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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