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What is Quality?
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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8642217" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>Smugness does not become you... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /></p><p></p><p>As to the OP:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1. I don't recall, personally, much in the way of errata or clarification with B/X or AD&D, either. But then without the internet we most likely just took care of any issue we had ourselves. There has been a landslide of clarification in 5E via Sage Advice, Twitter, etc. asking for clarification on things in 5E.</p><p>2. I would argue that is because the rules are largely incomplete. There might not be a conflict <em>within</em> your group, but I have seen a lot of conflict <em>between</em> groups. Because the rules are "open" by intent, RAI and interpretation is very different oftentimes. YMMV, of course.</p><p>3. As others have pointed out repeatedly, the popularity of 5E is not just about quality, but about mass marketing, the internet, and other factors which earlier editions had little (if any) benefit of. Very early on D&D had to contend with bad press, satanism, etc. which WotC has had little to deal with by comparison IME. "Gaming" in general (TTRPG, video games, etc.) does not have in any way the stigma associated with it that prior editions had to deal with. If you told someone you played D&D in the 80's, it was because you were likely a nerd or outcast and bonded with others who played. Today, you can be just about anyone, play D&D, and not have a very negative response to that--if any at all. Often, responses are positive now.</p><p>4. We don't hear about the people who pick it up, try it, and <em>DON'T</em> continue to play it, though, do we?</p><p><strong>5. This is the largest factor of what determines if something is "quality" or not. (see below).</strong></p><p></p><p>Quality is completely subjective, there is no way to gauge it so is pointless in really discussing it. The best you can do is identify what, to <em>you</em>, is quality and discuss why something is quality with those who share your views.</p><p></p><p>For instance many people love old LP records and think they are better quality than modern digital MP3s, others view MP3s as superior in quality to old LPs. Lots of people think different book series are quality (like Twilight and Wheel of Time), but others think the quality of the writing, story, etc. of those series is garbage. Fast food and chain restaurants are another place where some people find quality in the products while others don't. Some find games like Vampire and Shadowrun quality games, others don't like them because they don't like the rules/ design even if they like the concepts. And so on...</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I wonder how many players of prior editions of D&D still prefer, possibly play, those editions; and so aren't around here telling us? Perhaps they tried 5E years ago, didn't like it, and returned to those prior editions? I know many people (myself included) who play 5E simply because it is what others play--they have had <em>no</em> experience with prior editions before our games. I have two players to whom I showed AD&D 1E and played a quick session. They both really liked it, it was very different from 5E, and said they would play it again. </p><p></p><p>Do all these new players love 5E because of what it is/does or because that is what they have experienced and don't have anything for comparison? I am about to join a new group (hopefully tomorrow night) who recently started 5E. They have no prior D&D experience and know they aren't doing a lot of the stuff "right" (or so I've been told by a player...). I told him as long as they are having fun, they <em>ARE</em> doing it "right".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8642217, member: 6987520"] Smugness does not become you... :( As to the OP: 1. I don't recall, personally, much in the way of errata or clarification with B/X or AD&D, either. But then without the internet we most likely just took care of any issue we had ourselves. There has been a landslide of clarification in 5E via Sage Advice, Twitter, etc. asking for clarification on things in 5E. 2. I would argue that is because the rules are largely incomplete. There might not be a conflict [I]within[/I] your group, but I have seen a lot of conflict [I]between[/I] groups. Because the rules are "open" by intent, RAI and interpretation is very different oftentimes. YMMV, of course. 3. As others have pointed out repeatedly, the popularity of 5E is not just about quality, but about mass marketing, the internet, and other factors which earlier editions had little (if any) benefit of. Very early on D&D had to contend with bad press, satanism, etc. which WotC has had little to deal with by comparison IME. "Gaming" in general (TTRPG, video games, etc.) does not have in any way the stigma associated with it that prior editions had to deal with. If you told someone you played D&D in the 80's, it was because you were likely a nerd or outcast and bonded with others who played. Today, you can be just about anyone, play D&D, and not have a very negative response to that--if any at all. Often, responses are positive now. 4. We don't hear about the people who pick it up, try it, and [I]DON'T[/I] continue to play it, though, do we? [B]5. This is the largest factor of what determines if something is "quality" or not. (see below).[/B] Quality is completely subjective, there is no way to gauge it so is pointless in really discussing it. The best you can do is identify what, to [I]you[/I], is quality and discuss why something is quality with those who share your views. For instance many people love old LP records and think they are better quality than modern digital MP3s, others view MP3s as superior in quality to old LPs. Lots of people think different book series are quality (like Twilight and Wheel of Time), but others think the quality of the writing, story, etc. of those series is garbage. Fast food and chain restaurants are another place where some people find quality in the products while others don't. Some find games like Vampire and Shadowrun quality games, others don't like them because they don't like the rules/ design even if they like the concepts. And so on... Anyway, I wonder how many players of prior editions of D&D still prefer, possibly play, those editions; and so aren't around here telling us? Perhaps they tried 5E years ago, didn't like it, and returned to those prior editions? I know many people (myself included) who play 5E simply because it is what others play--they have had [I]no[/I] experience with prior editions before our games. I have two players to whom I showed AD&D 1E and played a quick session. They both really liked it, it was very different from 5E, and said they would play it again. Do all these new players love 5E because of what it is/does or because that is what they have experienced and don't have anything for comparison? I am about to join a new group (hopefully tomorrow night) who recently started 5E. They have no prior D&D experience and know they aren't doing a lot of the stuff "right" (or so I've been told by a player...). I told him as long as they are having fun, they [I]ARE[/I] doing it "right". [/QUOTE]
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