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<blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8644583" data-attributes="member: 67338">but if most people that interact with 7th 8th and 9th level spells run into it with all 7th 8th and 9th level spells (and I am not say that is true saying if) then would that mean that the last 1/3 of the game is of poor quality (that I am saying... like not holding back at all I think levels over 13 fall apart without a very good dm). One of the catch 22s we ran into was some people claiming that fighters had all the advantages from level 1-9 (before 5th level spells came on line fro full casters) while others argued you had to compare 20th level with 4 attacks 2 extra feats and THAT was when it equaled out... either one to me sounds bad (although I disagree with both) if you have to play half the game unbalanced that seems to me to BE unbalanced... I don't want to relitigate the martial/caster issues though, so I will switch to caster vs caster... we KNOW they made some spells more powerful than there levels indicate (fireball and magic missile both hit above there weight class on purpose) but just by accident (I assume since no statement has come to light yet) we have Sod/SoS spells at every level... so you never 'grow' into being able to shuts down enemies you just always can (Can meaning if they miss the save or the condition that avoids the save). However this leads to 2 casters being VERY different in power in play and as such makes CRs harder to rate (Can this group all throw SoD, do they all have optimal damage?)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GMforPowergamers, post: 8644583, member: 67338"] but if most people that interact with 7th 8th and 9th level spells run into it with all 7th 8th and 9th level spells (and I am not say that is true saying if) then would that mean that the last 1/3 of the game is of poor quality (that I am saying... like not holding back at all I think levels over 13 fall apart without a very good dm). One of the catch 22s we ran into was some people claiming that fighters had all the advantages from level 1-9 (before 5th level spells came on line fro full casters) while others argued you had to compare 20th level with 4 attacks 2 extra feats and THAT was when it equaled out... either one to me sounds bad (although I disagree with both) if you have to play half the game unbalanced that seems to me to BE unbalanced... I don't want to relitigate the martial/caster issues though, so I will switch to caster vs caster... we KNOW they made some spells more powerful than there levels indicate (fireball and magic missile both hit above there weight class on purpose) but just by accident (I assume since no statement has come to light yet) we have Sod/SoS spells at every level... so you never 'grow' into being able to shuts down enemies you just always can (Can meaning if they miss the save or the condition that avoids the save). However this leads to 2 casters being VERY different in power in play and as such makes CRs harder to rate (Can this group all throw SoD, do they all have optimal damage?) [/QUOTE]

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