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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8644881" data-attributes="member: 16814">I'm going to say this again, because I think it got buried before.&quot;Fun&quot; is not a measure of quality.&nbsp; How much you enjoy a thing is not a measure of quality.&nbsp; These are measures of, well, fun and enjoyment.&nbsp; You can fully enjoy things of low quality -- have a total blast with them, even.&nbsp; That you had fun is not a marker of quality.Quality is a comparative assessment between similar products/services.&nbsp; As RPGs are rather broad in how they target play, direct comparisons are often hard.&nbsp; However, we can clearly look to layout/editing, art quality (again, not if you like it), rules completeness, ease of rule usages, alignment of rules to game goals, and so on.&nbsp; From this, it's pretty clear that 5e is a quality RPG -- it has excellent layout/editing (not perfect), excellent art (not that you have to like it, but it's good art well done, appropriate to the material, and evocative), it's fairly complete (average-ish), it's fairly easy to use (average-ish), it's rules are well aligned to it's game goals (although most people mistake what these are for their game goals).&nbsp; It does what it says on the tin well enough and in a nice enough package to be considered a quality game.&nbsp; But, then, so are so very many other RPGs.&nbsp; In fact, there's nothing particularly special about the quality of D&amp;D compared to many other games.&nbsp; D&amp;D is quality for RPGs, but that's nowhere next to perfect.&nbsp; It's still very available to criticism despite it's quality.&nbsp; And certainly available to criticism despite people having fun with it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8644881, member: 16814"] I'm going to say this again, because I think it got buried before. "Fun" is not a measure of quality. How much you enjoy a thing is not a measure of quality. These are measures of, well, fun and enjoyment. You can fully enjoy things of low quality -- have a total blast with them, even. That you had fun is not a marker of quality. Quality is a comparative assessment between similar products/services. As RPGs are rather broad in how they target play, direct comparisons are often hard. However, we can clearly look to layout/editing, art quality (again, not if you like it), rules completeness, ease of rule usages, alignment of rules to game goals, and so on. From this, it's pretty clear that 5e is a quality RPG -- it has excellent layout/editing (not perfect), excellent art (not that you have to like it, but it's good art well done, appropriate to the material, and evocative), it's fairly complete (average-ish), it's fairly easy to use (average-ish), it's rules are well aligned to it's game goals (although most people mistake what these are for their game goals). It does what it says on the tin well enough and in a nice enough package to be considered a quality game. But, then, so are so very many other RPGs. In fact, there's nothing particularly special about the quality of D&D compared to many other games. D&D is quality for RPGs, but that's nowhere next to perfect. It's still very available to criticism despite it's quality. And certainly available to criticism despite people having fun with it. [/QUOTE]

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