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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 9860578" data-attributes="member: 7026617">Yup.  And some people avoid games with psychological disadvantage mechanisms for the same reason.I think I'm going to present my position on this clearly because it may have gotten lost in the weeds along the way.1. People who have extremely low attributes in an area (lower than some games permit these days) but play like they aren't on a consistent basis are doing bad roleplaying.  Further, they may well be gaming process, depending on the specifics and how much the low attribute otherwise impairs them.  I don't think simply taking control of the character is the proper way to address this, but I do think its legitimate to address it in some fashion (the ideal way is to ask them just what the hell they're doing and discussing the matter).2. A claim in this thread (which is, notably, a general RPG thread) that in no game is ever taking control of the player's character from them when they're not playing properly is legitimate is only a sound position if you also indicate up front that you're limiting your argument to a subset of RPGs; as I noted there are plenty of games where that's not only permitted but expected under at least some circumstances (and in some of them arguments based on those traits being "voluntary" looks a little disigenuous since at least some in that range approach universal on player characters.  A Champions superhero without at least a psych limit or two is vanishingly rare in the wild, and as noted, every Pendragon character has Virtues and (is it Flaw?  Or Vices?  Its been too long).)That's pretty much the only arguments I'm making here, and with the qualifications given.</blockquote>

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