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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9871291" data-attributes="member: 6785785">Yes… this is very clear!But do you think that everyone is equally as perturbed by this as you are? I can’t comment in Exalted 2… but sure, some games may try for this kind of thing and fail. And yes, others will be better. As to why you might consider such systems… maybe because they offer a different playing experience? I play different games to have different experiences. I expect many others do the same. No, that’s inaccurate. Or incomplete. One action is randomized. The result of the roll to resist his Lustful nature. But the player still chose to have the character face that weakness… to test the character’s strength to resist his vice. A vice that was assigned or chosen by the player, who then likely expected it to come up in play. Taken as a whole, this is simply not a situation in which the player lacks all agency. Yes, there is the potential for loss of agency as a consequence of the player’s choices… but that is a very different thing to the player lacking all agency or all their choice being randomized. This is why I’ve pushed back on your phrasing. I think perhaps your strong feelings on this topic… feelings that are perfectly valid… may influence how you describe what’s happening. I’m not disagreeing with how it feels for you. Because they don’t need to require such sacrifices? Games that have rules systems for these kinds of things are often a lot more character focused than games without them. In each of the games I’ve talked about in this thread… Spire, The Between, and Stonetop, causing complications for the group was never the issue that it could often be in D&D for the same players. Because the expectations are just a bit different. It’s not so much about PvP or the party breaking up as it is about the players being less focused on resource management and risk mitigation. It’s something I’ve observed with my longstanding group… no matter how many new games we play, no matter how well they adjust to the given expectations of play… once we go back to D&D, they slip into old habits. It’s kind of amazing sometimes.</blockquote>

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