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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bill Zebub" data-source="post: 9871984" data-attributes="member: 7031982">Ok, now I'm confused.  I thought we were still on the topic of social skills and player agency, talking about whether players would or would not voluntarily choose actions in response to the outcome of NPC actions that were as unexpected...and dramatic/awesome...as those that would be imposed upon them if following rules that constrained or dictated those responses.But this example sounds like you're stepping way outside of those parameters.  And now I understand why my changing your "stuff" to "doing stuff" was a big deal.  I thought we were still talking about players choosing unexpected action declarations for their PCs, not just "unexpected stuff happening."So, yes, if we are talking about just unexpected stuff happening that the players probably wouldn't call down upon themselves voluntarily, then I readily agree that following rule systems will likely result in interesting, unexpected things that the players would choose to have happen on their own.We weren't having the conversation I thought we were having, and I'm not sure how or when we made that leap, but now I understand what you are saying.</blockquote>