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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8854310" data-attributes="member: 6877472">But ok, real play example.We were fighting a demon that had been summoned by some cultists.&nbsp; Now, the demon was quite powerful for our level, but if we could get to this altar and destroy it, we could banish it for good.&nbsp; The problem, of course, was the demon itself was doing a great job of preventing us from getting there.We spent many combat rounds barely surviving, with the Cleric doing their level best to keep us from falling.&nbsp; I actually started to think we might even win after I got a good critical hit in.Then the Wizard said &quot;aha, I got it!&quot; and suddenly (courtesy of a failed Dex save), the demon was trapped in a resilient sphere, so all we needed to do was casually stroll up to the altar and destroy it, exiling the demon.In that moment, I felt like all our efforts had been for nothing.&nbsp; The damage we took, the damage we dealt, the whole battle, and in the end, one low roll and poof, it was all over.The more I thought about it, the problem wasn't the spell.&nbsp; It certainly seemed like an indestructible sphere of force was the kind of thing magic should be able to do.&nbsp; It was more how very little of the best spells the Wizard has care one iota about what the rest of the party is doing.&nbsp; One spell can turn a battle into a mopping up operation, where you're just finishing off foes that are technically alive, but no longer any threat.Or worse, there's nothing even left to stab!If more spells worked like sleep, color spray, or the various power words, it wouldn't feel like the Wizard is on an entirely different battlefield, I think.The revelation I finally had, however, was not that the spell was unreasonable compared to the rest of the spells in the game- but that someone had decided this was something magic could do long ago, and that had never really been challenged.And attempts to reign in magic, as I said before, are usually met, not with &quot;hey great, balanced magic&quot;, but people feeling like Clerics and Wizards no longer feel like the miracle workers they feel they should be.&nbsp; And you can't bring Fighters and Rogues up to their level, because they the complaint is they feel &quot;too magical&quot;, &quot;ungrounded&quot;, and &quot;unbelievable&quot; (see The Book of Nine Swords or 4th edition).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 8854310, member: 6877472"] But ok, real play example. We were fighting a demon that had been summoned by some cultists. Now, the demon was quite powerful for our level, but if we could get to this altar and destroy it, we could banish it for good. The problem, of course, was the demon itself was doing a great job of preventing us from getting there. We spent many combat rounds barely surviving, with the Cleric doing their level best to keep us from falling. I actually started to think we might even [I]win[/I] after I got a good critical hit in. Then the Wizard said "aha, I got it!" and suddenly (courtesy of a failed Dex save), the demon was trapped in a [I]resilient sphere[/I], so all we needed to do was casually stroll up to the altar and destroy it, exiling the demon. In that moment, I felt like all our efforts had been for nothing. The damage we took, the damage we dealt, the whole battle, and in the end, one low roll and poof, it was all over. The more I thought about it, the problem wasn't the spell. It certainly seemed like an indestructible sphere of force was the kind of thing magic should be able to do. It was more how very little of the best spells the Wizard has care one iota about what the rest of the party is doing. One spell can turn a battle into a mopping up operation, where you're just finishing off foes that are technically alive, but no longer any threat. Or worse, there's nothing even left to stab! If more spells worked like sleep, color spray, or the various power words, it wouldn't feel like the Wizard is on an entirely different battlefield, I think. The revelation I finally had, however, was not that the spell was unreasonable compared to the rest of the spells in the game- but that someone had decided this was something magic could do long ago, and that had never really been challenged. And attempts to reign in magic, as I said before, are usually met, not with "hey great, balanced magic", but people feeling like Clerics and Wizards no longer feel like the miracle workers they feel they should be. And you can't bring Fighters and Rogues up to their level, because they the complaint is they feel "too magical", "ungrounded", and "unbelievable" (see The Book of Nine Swords or 4th edition). [/QUOTE]

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