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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8854692" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>I agree entirely. That's a big problem with 5e's rulings not rules, talking about almost any problem turns into someone blaming the GM to dismiss it.</p><p></p><p>With regards to [USER=7020832]@FrozenNorth[/USER]'s web example I think that's more on web & the kind of changes I mentioned earlier where 5e tries too hard at meeting the needs of main character players who don't want x class to be x class or can't be bothered to work as part of a <em>team</em>. Compare the <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/web" target="_blank">5e web</a> to the <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm" target="_blank">3.x web</a>. </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They both (effectively) start with a dex save even if it was called a reflex save before<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Right off the bat things change dramatically from there but <strong>the 5e version</strong> causes a save or restrained (speed zero) so the target is simply disabled if it lacks ranged attacks or has nobody in melee<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The target can make a strength save as an action to simply ignore the entire web & jump back in immediately</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The <strong>3.x version</strong> depends on some systemic differences though<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em>Firs</em>t they can make a strength check or escape artist check (<em>usually</em> an action) and if successful they can move <em>five </em>feet through a web that might have up to a 20ft radius area to get through<br /> <br /> <em>Second</em> you have total cover if there is 20ft of web between you & someone else while a more likely 5 feet simply provides <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Cover#Cover" target="_blank">cover</a> so even trapping a ranged attacker in a web has value<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Both of those hook into the critical difference of resource attrition (prepared spells/hp pools/etc) shorter adventuring days & delaying part of an encounter or dramatically reducing the odds of ranged attacking mooks from hitting made an enormous difference. None of those things matter in 5e though because resource attrition has been downplayed so far it obliviates anything that depended on it so what remaimns feels wrong when it plays out</li> </ul></li> </ul></li> </ul></li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8854692, member: 93670"] I agree entirely. That's a big problem with 5e's rulings not rules, talking about almost any problem turns into someone blaming the GM to dismiss it. With regards to [USER=7020832]@FrozenNorth[/USER]'s web example I think that's more on web & the kind of changes I mentioned earlier where 5e tries too hard at meeting the needs of main character players who don't want x class to be x class or can't be bothered to work as part of a [I]team[/I]. Compare the [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/web']5e web[/URL] to the [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm']3.x web[/URL]. [LIST] [*]They both (effectively) start with a dex save even if it was called a reflex save before [LIST] [*]Right off the bat things change dramatically from there but [B]the 5e version[/B] causes a save or restrained (speed zero) so the target is simply disabled if it lacks ranged attacks or has nobody in melee [LIST] [*]The target can make a strength save as an action to simply ignore the entire web & jump back in immediately [/LIST] [*]The [B]3.x version[/B] depends on some systemic differences though [LIST] [*][I]Firs[/I]t they can make a strength check or escape artist check ([I]usually[/I] an action) and if successful they can move [I]five [/I]feet through a web that might have up to a 20ft radius area to get through [I]Second[/I] you have total cover if there is 20ft of web between you & someone else while a more likely 5 feet simply provides [URL='https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Cover#Cover']cover[/URL] so even trapping a ranged attacker in a web has value [LIST] [*]Both of those hook into the critical difference of resource attrition (prepared spells/hp pools/etc) shorter adventuring days & delaying part of an encounter or dramatically reducing the odds of ranged attacking mooks from hitting made an enormous difference. None of those things matter in 5e though because resource attrition has been downplayed so far it obliviates anything that depended on it so what remaimns feels wrong when it plays out [/LIST] [/LIST] [/LIST] [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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