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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8855520" data-attributes="member: 18">So to save us time I just put strike-throughs on the ones that are either:A) Obviously not utility abilities. Come on.B) Involve rolling, which is whole point.C) Are effectively or literally spellcasting, and where that's utility, we're already advocating a check.So the only ones I think might need looking at are Wild Shape and Divine Sense. As someone who plays a lot of Druids, I feel like Wild Shape might benefit from some kind of check, but that's a whole other in-depth discussion. I think forcing people to choose a very limited number of forms (like, say, Proficiency Bonus) that they can "auto" turn into, and forcing a check on others would be reasonable. I could kind of see Natural Explorer's climb speed, but I feel like that's more of a discussion of whether climb/swim speeds in general should work as well as they do in D&D (and would also apply to Spider Climb). I'd personally say all climb-speed people should have to make checks. Even mountain goats fall off mountains, and geckos off trees - hell, and spiders too - I've seen spiders fall off stuff! But that'd be a fundamental rules-change to climbing speed rules.Divine Sense should some kind of check, sure. I think it has been in the past maybe?Also, dude, you're saying "Devil's advocate", but you're pushing dangerously close to "actually just trolling in kind of a lazy way" with some of these examples. You definitely know what a utility ability is. You definitely know most of these aren't that in any meaningful sense. The benefit of Devil's advocate" is when you manage to pull out examples that are interesting, like how you got me to talk about healing.But maybe check yourself before you wreck yourself? Because when stick in a bunch of lazy, silly stuff like Song of Rest (a healing ability, not a utility one, we've already discussed that difference), it's grating and makes me want to dismiss you as not acting in good faith, and rather sealioning/time-wasting. I don't think you actually are, but maybe take a little more thought/care?*(Equally Jack of all Trades, that's a small numerical bonus to a ROLL. So you're already ROLLING the dice. There's already risk. Sheesh JoaT gets Bards into trouble plenty because they try stuff they're unlikely to succeed at lol.)* = I am aware that this is a somewhat hypocritical position for me to take generally but you're the one being Devil's advocate, so I get to moan about it this time! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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