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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8855558" data-attributes="member: 18">Okay, so this looks a lot more like bad faith to me, given your last example - you know that's not a utility spell, you even admit it, so why the heck are you asking me about it? Honestly, unless you can explain that cogently, you've gone beyond the bounds of Devil's Advocate. Don't ask me about stuff we both know is outside the definition. That's just time-wasting at best, and trolling at worst.But I'll quickly do your examples so you can't complain:1) Speed - AS I SAID EARLIER, movement rules are a whole other kettle of fish. That's a separate discussion. Neither should roll.2) Dice bonuses - FOR THE THIRD TIME, YOU'RE ALREADY ROLLING DICE YOU DON'T NEED TO ROLL MORE. I'm sorry for the caps but how is this hard for you? A bonus to a roll is DEFINITIONALLY not the same as a fiat ability. Come on.3) Is that what Natural Explorer does? I thought it was the climb speed thing. Interesting because it sounds like a very rare example of a non-magical fiat ability. Probably they should roll though, at least in some situations.4) Spell slots - Obviously this isn't a utility ability, obviously outside the discussion, cannot take that serious. That's just a mechanical balance benefit and you know it.5) Vision - This grants an ability, but it's not really fiat, because just like everyone with Darkvision, you're still going to have to make checks, a lot of them at Disadvantage.And you're confusing "hand-waving" without "obviously outside the scope". I'm suggesting non-combat spells that don't currently involve checks at all, that just give a fiat effect, should involve checks. I'm suggesting we exclude healing (solely because adding checks causes complication and necessary rebalancing with no benefit), movement (solely because it's a separate issue - I think checks to moving with climb speed would be a good idea), and certainly stuff that just grants basic vision some PC races have anyway, because all that does is let you make more checks, essentially. The risk is built-in. Bonuses are already excluded by definition, and I shouldn't have to clarify that.It seems like you're fixated on this idea that I want "spellcasting checks", but I dismissed that several posts ago.</blockquote>

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