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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8855654" data-attributes="member: 6987520">Yep, totally missed it! Thanks for taking the time and responding.1) Speed - you say another issue, I say not. Being able to move faster than normal is a utility ability and we agree should be automatic, so a Wizard shouldn't have to roll for longstrider-- yet it is otherwise an "automatic" thing.2) Dice bonuses - so another no roll, which is fine.3) Ok, so here they should add rolling.4) Again, we disagree on what a "utility ability" is. Being able to gain more spell slots to allow Sorcerers to cast more spells gives them more utility.5) Vision - how you necessarily making a roll? A roll only comes into play if the DM calls for a Wisdom (Perception) check or something. Devil's sight allows you to see in darkness normally, so you won't even have disadvantage on that check if called for (unlike darkvision).Actually, it sounds more like you are suggesting any feature which gives a fiat effect should involve a check (such as the Natural Explorer feature).Not at all. I am fixated on this idea: why should Wizards have to roll a spellcasting check a spell that grants them a "feature" when other classes have their features automatically, numerous times if not at-will?Do we really want to have a system where some spells require an "effect check" before working when others don't?Returning to your first example:Why? A martial with a hammer can "attack and damage" the wall until they punch a hole through it. The wall doesn't fight back, so it will happen eventually. Sure, the martial is "rolling to hit and for damage", but the result is inevitable. All the spell does is make it happen faster, at the expense of a spell slot--where the martial is spending the time.I think making a roll in combat (or at least during an "encounter") might be ok, due to the stress of the situation, but otherwise you are just imposing a risk of failure on a Wizard's "class features" where other classes don't have one and punishing the class needlessly.And returning to the rest of it:From your discussions it really isn't "pretty much every spell" is it?It often comes down to a trade-off: automatic success comes with limited use. Consider spider climb (definitely a utility spell) and a Rogue (Thief). With Second-Story Work, the Thief gains a climb speed equal to their walking speed, just like spider climb. However, with the spell, no Strength (Athletics) check is required, but the duration is "limited" (IMO an hour is much too long!), uses a spell slot, and requires concentration. While the Thief has to roll to climb (maybe), what failure constitutes is then up to the DM.Even if you make the Wizard roll to climb (since we know the spell is successfully cast), if the DC is the same as the Thief how is that magical? Should the spell be rewritten to just give you a climb speed equal to your walking speed?</blockquote>

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