Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What is REALLY wrong with the Wizard? (+)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8869374" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>It isn't a problem at all, unless it is in your view point? <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /></p><p></p><p>"Heroes of the Realm" might have a 300' wide chasm to traverse in order to head of an advance party of an army that threatens a city or even a kingdom. Time is of the essence and they are 7th level. Hours matter, if not minutes. So, will climbing down, crossing, and climbing up, which wastes such valuable time be done? Not by the Wizard who casts <em>dimension door</em>, leaving most of the party behind. The fighter, rogue, etc. don't have the time to go <em>around</em> the chasm, which could take most of a day, so they must risk a fast and perilous climb as the chasm is 200 feet deep or more, hoping they can make it in time.</p><p></p><p>That is how tier 2 characters might have to deal with a "tier one environment" --- as you call it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes :rolleyes:" data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p>LOL they aren't "Super Heroes" until tier 4. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>But yes, <em>magic</em> (not solely wizards) is a problem when you have martials classes, which 5E has designed to be fairly mundane in many ways, who have to face a "mundane" challenge in a scenario where it becomes all but impossible for them--but not for the caster/wizard.</p><p></p><p>So, blaming the DM (as you seem to be doing) is not the right approach. Balancing the game in more meaningful ways is better IMNSHO. You can either "magic-up" martials to the point they can do things akin to magic, or nerf magic to the point that it isn't a viable "be-all-end-all" for challenges.</p><p></p><p></p><p>True, it is design for "medium" magic, but not across the board. It is low magic in tier 1, medium magic in tier 2, high magic in tier 3, and god/super-hero magic in tier 4. Meanwhile, non-casters basically drop off at tier 2 and flatline for the most part. Their power-levels do not advance at anywhere near the same rate as casters overall due to the magic casters have.</p><p></p><p></p><p>My preference (as stated before) is too scale down magic to the level where at worst medium magic happens. This allows martials in tier 2 to remain equal, and both types to advance in power more at a rate to my liking. Why do you think most games stop at 10th level or around there? Sure, interest wains, but many DMs IME don't want super-ultra-uber-fantastic-adventures with PCs who can literally alter reality. YMMV, of course...</p><p></p><p>So, easy solution: stop class advancement around 10th level. Allow PCs to gain feats or other perks as they continue to adventure, but nothing to the point of what I call "high magic" (6th+ level spells).</p><p></p><p>Slightly more complex solution: stop class advancement around 15th (so PCs can still handle threats like beholders, liches, and perhaps even an ancient dragon with proper numbers/support), but slow down spells so they hit 5th level spells around 12-13 level.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I completely disagree with that, but it isn't worth arguing about. You do you. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>As I am not Tolkien or Jackson, I couldn't tell you. Perhaps Strider has <em>undead</em> as a favored enemy and knows the Ringwraiths can be repelled by courage, shown when he boldly advances on them, swinging the fire simply so he can see them more clearly?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sauron might have seen them coming and prepared for them? Remember they were trying to be secretive about their mission??? Flying over lands for leagues and leagues might just give them away. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8869374, member: 6987520"] It isn't a problem at all, unless it is in your view point? 🤷♂️ "Heroes of the Realm" might have a 300' wide chasm to traverse in order to head of an advance party of an army that threatens a city or even a kingdom. Time is of the essence and they are 7th level. Hours matter, if not minutes. So, will climbing down, crossing, and climbing up, which wastes such valuable time be done? Not by the Wizard who casts [I]dimension door[/I], leaving most of the party behind. The fighter, rogue, etc. don't have the time to go [I]around[/I] the chasm, which could take most of a day, so they must risk a fast and perilous climb as the chasm is 200 feet deep or more, hoping they can make it in time. That is how tier 2 characters might have to deal with a "tier one environment" --- as you call it. :rolleyes: LOL they aren't "Super Heroes" until tier 4. ;) But yes, [I]magic[/I] (not solely wizards) is a problem when you have martials classes, which 5E has designed to be fairly mundane in many ways, who have to face a "mundane" challenge in a scenario where it becomes all but impossible for them--but not for the caster/wizard. So, blaming the DM (as you seem to be doing) is not the right approach. Balancing the game in more meaningful ways is better IMNSHO. You can either "magic-up" martials to the point they can do things akin to magic, or nerf magic to the point that it isn't a viable "be-all-end-all" for challenges. True, it is design for "medium" magic, but not across the board. It is low magic in tier 1, medium magic in tier 2, high magic in tier 3, and god/super-hero magic in tier 4. Meanwhile, non-casters basically drop off at tier 2 and flatline for the most part. Their power-levels do not advance at anywhere near the same rate as casters overall due to the magic casters have. My preference (as stated before) is too scale down magic to the level where at worst medium magic happens. This allows martials in tier 2 to remain equal, and both types to advance in power more at a rate to my liking. Why do you think most games stop at 10th level or around there? Sure, interest wains, but many DMs IME don't want super-ultra-uber-fantastic-adventures with PCs who can literally alter reality. YMMV, of course... So, easy solution: stop class advancement around 10th level. Allow PCs to gain feats or other perks as they continue to adventure, but nothing to the point of what I call "high magic" (6th+ level spells). Slightly more complex solution: stop class advancement around 15th (so PCs can still handle threats like beholders, liches, and perhaps even an ancient dragon with proper numbers/support), but slow down spells so they hit 5th level spells around 12-13 level. Yeah, I completely disagree with that, but it isn't worth arguing about. You do you. :) As I am not Tolkien or Jackson, I couldn't tell you. Perhaps Strider has [I]undead[/I] as a favored enemy and knows the Ringwraiths can be repelled by courage, shown when he boldly advances on them, swinging the fire simply so he can see them more clearly? Sauron might have seen them coming and prepared for them? Remember they were trying to be secretive about their mission??? Flying over lands for leagues and leagues might just give them away. ;) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What is REALLY wrong with the Wizard? (+)
Top