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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8970869" data-attributes="member: 93670">No, you need to look at how all the pieces&nbsp; worked in 3.x &amp; earlier.&nbsp; Lets say Bob is level 8.in 2e he has: 4 level 1 slots 3 level 2 slots 3 level 3 slots &amp; 2 level 4 slots &amp; can prep that many spells of those levelsin 3.x he has: 4 level 1 slots 3 level 2 slots 3 level 3 slots &amp; 2 level 4 slots &amp; can prep that many spells of those levelsIn 5e he has : 4 level 1 slots 3 level 2 slots 3 level 3 slots &amp; 2 level 4 slotsOn the surface those look the same, but the difference lies in prep &amp; where his bread &amp; butter or big gun spells live. That 2e &amp; 3.x character of Bob's is going to have exactly as many spells as they have slots even if some of them are duplicates of top shelf spells.&nbsp; The 5e version might have 8&nbsp; level 3-4 spells prepped with the remaining 4 spread across a few top shelf spells for levels 1&amp;2.&nbsp; Level 8 was not chosen randomly<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iY1uvVwnZ-bKoGBXE7GxE3w-SZXxy0jaFkxjHDW1PNA/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank">, that's the breakeven point</a> before the 5e PC begins losing prep slots.&nbsp; When you factor in that some of those lost slots would have been devoted to spells that are now growing from &quot;meh&quot; to solid choices or even top shelf&nbsp; spells&nbsp; due to caster level scaling the diversity is almost certain to expand.&nbsp; Meanwhile the 5e spells only improve by upcasting &amp; the gains from upcasting are almost always terrible in ways that ensure Bob might not even have a full 5 spells prepped from L1&amp;L2 slots unless they already had those spells in their standard rotation.Absolutely 100% &amp; my posting history will back that up...&nbsp; but those spells are the exception not the norm.&nbsp; Shield in 5e is an abomination that never should have made it past the cocktail napkin level of design as written. The other two you mention are only (very) slightly less awful &amp; still in need of serious rework.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8970869, member: 93670"] No, you need to look at how [I]all[/I] the pieces worked in 3.x & earlier. Lets say Bob is level 8. in 2e he has: 4 level 1 slots 3 level 2 slots 3 level 3 slots & 2 level 4 slots & can prep that many spells of those levels in 3.x he has: 4 level 1 slots 3 level 2 slots 3 level 3 slots & 2 level 4 slots & can prep that many spells of those levels In 5e he has : 4 level 1 slots 3 level 2 slots 3 level 3 slots & 2 level 4 slots On the surface those look the same, but the difference lies in prep & where his bread & butter or big gun spells live. That 2e & 3.x character of Bob's is going to have exactly as many spells as they have slots even if some of them are duplicates of top shelf spells. The 5e version might have 8 level 3-4 spells prepped with the remaining 4 spread across a few top shelf spells for levels 1&2. Level 8 was not chosen randomly[URL='https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iY1uvVwnZ-bKoGBXE7GxE3w-SZXxy0jaFkxjHDW1PNA/edit?usp=sharing'], that's the breakeven point[/URL] before the 5e PC begins [I]losing[/I] prep slots. When you factor in that some of those lost slots would have been devoted to spells that are now growing from "meh" to solid choices or even top shelf spells due to caster level scaling the diversity is almost certain to expand. Meanwhile the 5e spells only improve by upcasting & the gains from upcasting are almost always terrible in ways that ensure Bob might not even have a full 5 spells prepped from L1&L2 slots unless they already had those spells in their standard rotation. Absolutely 100% & my posting history will back that up... but those spells are the exception not the norm. Shield in 5e is an abomination that never should have made it past the cocktail napkin level of design as written. The other two you mention are only[I] (very)[/I] slightly less awful & still in need of serious rework. [/QUOTE]

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