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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 6663677" data-attributes="member: 20323">Back in 1e when the ranger first appeared in D&D, they were a sub-class of fighter adept at woodcraft, tracking, scouting, infiltration, and spying. That seems like a good place to start in any redesign. Notably:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They had stiff ability score requirements, had to be good, and operated under certain rules (like donating to a worthy cause). This aspect of design has mostly been dropped in modern incarnations of D&D.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They were tougher (had more hit points) than other classes. Though that idea was dropped in 2e and onward, there was a 2e ranger kit called the Mountain Man that reinforced the idea that a ranger should be hard to kill. Mostly this old aspect of the ranger has become the barbarian's thing.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They dealt extra damage equal to their level against "giant class" creatures (mostly monstrous humanoids).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They had improved chances to surprise monsters, and reduced chances of being surprised.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At 8th level they got Druid Spells, and at 9th level Magic-User spells. In both cases, their spellcasting did not exceed 3rd level spells.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They could track. In 5e, anyone can make a Wisdom (Survival) check to track, so perhaps there should be emphasis on what makes a ranger's tracking better than any one else tracking.</li> </ul>Absolutely agree, it's just a good fit for the ranger which has historically been more of a smorgasbord class. Call these "Woodcraft Talents." Anything that doesn't fit the "tracking, scout, infiltrating, and spying" concept, and isn't an established core class feature from past editions, should probably be made a Woodcraft Talent.</blockquote>

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