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<blockquote data-quote="Matchstick" data-source="post: 121747" data-attributes="member: 217">These are essentially the same, &quot;at odds&quot; meaning &quot;brooding&quot;.&nbsp; It might actually be shorter to compile a list of characters that are NOT brooding.&nbsp; Even Conan broods.&nbsp; Sure Boromir is the best example of a brooding warrior that we all know (caused by his parentage BTW).&nbsp; But it takes little effort to find more, including more who brood about their parentage.John Carter, Tarzan, Springbuck (parentage, &quot;Doomfarers of Coramonde&quot;, '77), Luke Skywalker (parentage), Garion/Belgarion ('82), Faramir (parentage), Aragorn (parentage/lineage), Lije Bailey (&quot;Caves of Steel&quot; '53), Alex Griffin (&quot;Dream Park&quot; '77), Istvan the Archer (&quot;Dark Border&quot; '82), and even Thomas Covenent ('77).It wouldn't be hard to make a list many pages long here, the brooding warrior is a classic convention. The convention here is more &quot;the thief with the childlike outlook&quot;, but it's interesting to note that in the TSR publication &quot;Dungeon of Dread&quot; ('82) there is a halfling thief that resembles the kender very much.&nbsp; So not only did this convention exist before DL, TSR was already using it. More examples: Silk (Belgariad '82) is just a (slightly) taller version of a kender in many ways, Slippery Jim Di Griz (Stainless Steel Rat '73) certainly has the talent and attitude to have been a precursor to the kender, and keeping out thieves like the Grey Mouser ('68), Shadowspawn ('79), and Tananda the assassin ('78) would be overlooking similar characters.Once again the convention here is &quot;the grumpy guy&quot; but it's no real challenge to find them even limiting the search to dwarves.&nbsp; Certainly every dwarf in &quot;The Hobbit&quot; could be classified as gruff, grumpy, or both.&nbsp; Gimli could be considered as well, but I don't think he's as good an example as Thorin (or most of his cronies).&nbsp; Again, right around the time of DL TSR published a book called &quot;Revolt of the Dwarves&quot; ('83) that is chock full of grouchy dwarves, and even Ahira (&quot;The Sleeping Dragon&quot; '83) is portrayed as a grumpy/grouchy/gruff dwarf.I'd give examples here but I'm not sure what you're saying Laurana is, and I'm not familiar enough with the books (having only read them once) to know what her archetype is.&nbsp;&nbsp; An unrequited love?&nbsp; A woman who changes over the course of the books?&nbsp; Both?&nbsp; Again, it wouldn't be too difficult to find numerous examples of either of those characteristics.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you want to clarify I can give examples.Oops, almost forgot:Usually this character is a bad guy, or a good guy that studied the bad guys too long.&nbsp; Saruman fits your description, as do Ctuchik and Zedar from the Belgariad ('82).&nbsp;&nbsp; Enas Yorl ('79) and Ghisteslwchlom (&quot;Riddle of Stars&quot; '76) fit the bill as well.&nbsp; I think the closest character might be Ged ('68), he's nothing if not a mage that learned things he shouldn't, and paid a terrible price for his power.&nbsp; He has the bad attitude too, if only for a while.&nbsp; I like that comparison because Ged is a main character (&quot;the&quot; main character in fact) like Raistlin.Thanks!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Matchstick, post: 121747, member: 217"] These are essentially the same, "at odds" meaning "brooding". It might actually be shorter to compile a list of characters that are NOT brooding. Even Conan broods. Sure Boromir is the best example of a brooding warrior that we all know (caused by his parentage BTW). But it takes little effort to find more, including more who brood about their parentage. John Carter, Tarzan, Springbuck (parentage, "Doomfarers of Coramonde", '77), Luke Skywalker (parentage), Garion/Belgarion ('82), Faramir (parentage), Aragorn (parentage/lineage), Lije Bailey ("Caves of Steel" '53), Alex Griffin ("Dream Park" '77), Istvan the Archer ("Dark Border" '82), and even Thomas Covenent ('77). It wouldn't be hard to make a list many pages long here, the brooding warrior is a classic convention. The convention here is more "the thief with the childlike outlook", but it's interesting to note that in the TSR publication "Dungeon of Dread" ('82) there is a halfling thief that resembles the kender very much. So not only did this convention exist before DL, TSR was already using it. More examples: Silk (Belgariad '82) is just a (slightly) taller version of a kender in many ways, Slippery Jim Di Griz (Stainless Steel Rat '73) certainly has the talent and attitude to have been a precursor to the kender, and keeping out thieves like the Grey Mouser ('68), Shadowspawn ('79), and Tananda the assassin ('78) would be overlooking similar characters. Once again the convention here is "the grumpy guy" but it's no real challenge to find them even limiting the search to dwarves. Certainly every dwarf in "The Hobbit" could be classified as gruff, grumpy, or both. Gimli could be considered as well, but I don't think he's as good an example as Thorin (or most of his cronies). Again, right around the time of DL TSR published a book called "Revolt of the Dwarves" ('83) that is chock full of grouchy dwarves, and even Ahira ("The Sleeping Dragon" '83) is portrayed as a grumpy/grouchy/gruff dwarf. I'd give examples here but I'm not sure what you're saying Laurana is, and I'm not familiar enough with the books (having only read them once) to know what her archetype is. An unrequited love? A woman who changes over the course of the books? Both? Again, it wouldn't be too difficult to find numerous examples of either of those characteristics. If you want to clarify I can give examples. Oops, almost forgot: Usually this character is a bad guy, or a good guy that studied the bad guys too long. Saruman fits your description, as do Ctuchik and Zedar from the Belgariad ('82). Enas Yorl ('79) and Ghisteslwchlom ("Riddle of Stars" '76) fit the bill as well. I think the closest character might be Ged ('68), he's nothing if not a mage that learned things he shouldn't, and paid a terrible price for his power. He has the bad attitude too, if only for a while. I like that comparison because Ged is a main character ("the" main character in fact) like Raistlin. Thanks! [/QUOTE]

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