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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 604108" data-attributes="member: 4134">Re: SavesNowhere. As I said, and I'll be happy to repeat it, it shows up in several other books as well, books that are from wizards, by the way, no quint book or something. And as a saving throw and an attack roll are quite similar in their nature and impact on thosee involved, it's a logical thing.You don't have to be sorry, and the sage neither snookered nor pooled me into something. It's both the sage and several books stating the fact, as well as it's been done like that before, that convinced me that it's the way it should be (and watch out for the revised books, I'm sure they'll clear that one up there).That has nothing to do with saves and 1's and 20's, but with the 1's and 20's themselves: it's the same as that little kid who could hit the fighter40/rogue40 with very expensive equipment and real high ability scores and fighting defensively with his defense weapon (having an ac of, say, 60), with the same chance of success as that 10th-level fighter with weapon focus and a +2 weapon. The 1's and 20's are fine, both for attack as well for saves - to a point. At epic levels, it might be feasable to change those rules. Both the 1=-10/20=30 rule from DMG and the 1 = new roll -20/20 = new roll +20 from ELH are nice ones.</blockquote>