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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
What is the best way to create effective Monk only with core rules?
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<blockquote data-quote="Gizzard" data-source="post: 235181" data-attributes="member: 527"><p>> Even with a 10 int, you're getting 5 skill points per level. </p><p></p><p>10-11 is +0, so you get 4 skill points, right? You'd have to go to 12 to get +1. (My own Monk is 10 INT).</p><p></p><p>> The times when it's better not to use Flurry of Blows when </p><p>> you get a full attack are so massively rare that it's best not </p><p>> to think about it.</p><p></p><p>Yes indeedy. Also note that the PHB example for Flurry has errata.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, my thoughts:</p><p></p><p>1) The first choice is Race. If you are playing a campaign with a lot of dungeon crawling then getting Darkvision by being a Half Orc is an interesting possibility. With skills like Hide and Move Silent and good movement rate you make a good scout. If your campaign is mostly outdoors or Goggles of Darkvision are cheap then this isnt the best plan. </p><p></p><p>Humans get the extra Feat which helps you if you are trying to get Spring Attack at level 6. Halflings get DEX and good Skill synergy, but lose STR and movement which seems not so good. </p><p></p><p>I play a human, btw. I miss having Darkvision, but I dont feel a need for more DEX at the cost of STR. I messed up my Feat tree so I cant comment on Spring Attack other than to say many people recommend it. </p><p></p><p>2) Skills. My INT is 10, I dont have a lot of points to spend, so I kept within my Class Skills. Tumble is by far the best Skill and it has a synergy bonus with both Jump and Balance. I filled those 3 out quickly along with Hide and Move Silent. The Monk actually has a pretty good Skill selection, it somewhat compensates for being weak in other areas. By level 5, I am pretty happy with my Skills, even at INT 10.</p><p></p><p>3) Feats. I chose Combat Reflexes and Improved Initiative at first level. This is not optimal in any way. Monks do not get a lot of Feats and you must choose them carefully.</p><p></p><p>If you pick up Weapon Finesse at level 3 (because of its BAB+1 requirement its not available at level 1) then you can gain probably 1-3 points on your attack roll. You wont want to shirk on STR since you still need a decent damage bonus to fight, but if you arent headed for Spring Attack its a good benefit.</p><p></p><p>If you want Spring Attack at level 6, you need to choose Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack, which eats up all your Feats unless you are Human. Spring Attack seems to get better and better as your movement gets higher; it might not be worth it to get it at level 6. Of course, if you dont, you wont get it until level 9. </p><p></p><p>4) Stats. I arranged my stats a lot like James did in his example. I rolled them and then arranged to get 15 STR, 17 DEX, 13 CON, 10 INT, 16 WIS, 9 CHA. I chose to favor DEX over WIS because I felt it was more generally useful at the time. I still think that is true since so many of your best skills are DEX based. You dont lose the WIS bonus to AC when flat-footed, but thats about the best I can think of.</p><p></p><p>Another thing to think about is where to put that first attribute point at level 4. I chanced my 17 DEX to 18, giving me a +4 instead of a +3 which really helped. Try to make sure you have a natural place to put your free point.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gizzard, post: 235181, member: 527"] > Even with a 10 int, you're getting 5 skill points per level. 10-11 is +0, so you get 4 skill points, right? You'd have to go to 12 to get +1. (My own Monk is 10 INT). > The times when it's better not to use Flurry of Blows when > you get a full attack are so massively rare that it's best not > to think about it. Yes indeedy. Also note that the PHB example for Flurry has errata. Anyway, my thoughts: 1) The first choice is Race. If you are playing a campaign with a lot of dungeon crawling then getting Darkvision by being a Half Orc is an interesting possibility. With skills like Hide and Move Silent and good movement rate you make a good scout. If your campaign is mostly outdoors or Goggles of Darkvision are cheap then this isnt the best plan. Humans get the extra Feat which helps you if you are trying to get Spring Attack at level 6. Halflings get DEX and good Skill synergy, but lose STR and movement which seems not so good. I play a human, btw. I miss having Darkvision, but I dont feel a need for more DEX at the cost of STR. I messed up my Feat tree so I cant comment on Spring Attack other than to say many people recommend it. 2) Skills. My INT is 10, I dont have a lot of points to spend, so I kept within my Class Skills. Tumble is by far the best Skill and it has a synergy bonus with both Jump and Balance. I filled those 3 out quickly along with Hide and Move Silent. The Monk actually has a pretty good Skill selection, it somewhat compensates for being weak in other areas. By level 5, I am pretty happy with my Skills, even at INT 10. 3) Feats. I chose Combat Reflexes and Improved Initiative at first level. This is not optimal in any way. Monks do not get a lot of Feats and you must choose them carefully. If you pick up Weapon Finesse at level 3 (because of its BAB+1 requirement its not available at level 1) then you can gain probably 1-3 points on your attack roll. You wont want to shirk on STR since you still need a decent damage bonus to fight, but if you arent headed for Spring Attack its a good benefit. If you want Spring Attack at level 6, you need to choose Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack, which eats up all your Feats unless you are Human. Spring Attack seems to get better and better as your movement gets higher; it might not be worth it to get it at level 6. Of course, if you dont, you wont get it until level 9. 4) Stats. I arranged my stats a lot like James did in his example. I rolled them and then arranged to get 15 STR, 17 DEX, 13 CON, 10 INT, 16 WIS, 9 CHA. I chose to favor DEX over WIS because I felt it was more generally useful at the time. I still think that is true since so many of your best skills are DEX based. You dont lose the WIS bonus to AC when flat-footed, but thats about the best I can think of. Another thing to think about is where to put that first attribute point at level 4. I chanced my 17 DEX to 18, giving me a +4 instead of a +3 which really helped. Try to make sure you have a natural place to put your free point. [/QUOTE]
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What is the best way to create effective Monk only with core rules?
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