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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 4992305" data-attributes="member: 67338">Ok, there has been alot of talk about 'good' builds, 'trap' builds, and 'optimized' builds...and I have to ask, "is it a big diffence?"Now yes I know the op board over at wizard's sight has builds at 30th level doiing 100+ damage with at wills, but lets for get corner case max level builds for a moment and compair heroic tier optmized Vs not...I built a party of 2 defenders, a leader and 2 strikers...I made some optimized some not...take a look[sblock=my work]Level 2 PCs… fighting level 3 soldiers but with CA 19 AC’s, and 15 Nads…Player A one handed Fighter Dragonborn20 str expertise long sword weapon focus longswordBasic attack  +13 1d8+6        DPR 8.05Tide of Iron same  Cleve  samePlayer B Battle rage two weapon fighter Dwarf16 str 16 Con 16 wis Dwarven Weapon training, ranger multi class (for math he has temp hp)Basic attack +8 1d10+5                    DPR 5.75Dual strike  +8 1d10+2  (two targets)    DPR 4.25Crushing Surge same as basicPlayer C Rouge Human18 Dex 16 Cha  Heavy blade duelist training, back stabber, weapon expertise heavybladeSly flourish +11 1d8+7+2d8      DPR  13.85Piercing strike same but vs NAD    DPR 17.95Player D Warlock Teifling16 Con 16 cha linguistics, skill focusEldritch Blast +4 1d10+3+1d6    DPR 6.35Hellish rebuke +4 1d6+3+1d6    DPR 5.25Player E Warlord half orc18 str 14 Int   spike chain training, Armor prof scaleBasic attack +9 2d4+4          DPR 5.1Viper Strike  sameWolf pack tactics sameBest DPR is Player C at 17.95Second best is Player A at 8.05Third best is player D at 6.35Fourth best is player B with either 5.75 to one or 4.25 to twoWorst is player E with 5.1…Soldier hp is 8+con+ (8xlevel) so lets give this soldier a 13 con…55hp…How long does each take to kill it…Player C 3 roundsPlayer A 7 roundsPlayer D 9 roundsPlayer B 10 roundsPlayer E 11 roundsSo if not incliding the rouge (who kills it two of them before the next best can kill one) it seams it is a 4 round difference…[/sblock]What is the worst dpr here compared to the second best… 2.95 points…not even 3 pts. (second best becuse my main optimized striker is just shy of double the optimized fighter damage, and more then tripple the worst)so now I know there are people out there with much better math fu then me...so here is my quastion...how much DPR really matters and how close to optmized is viable... (I do ask if you post lots of numbers and builds to use the sblock like I did)...I used 2nd level, but feel free to use any heroic levels as long as everyone is on equal footing to start...</blockquote>

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