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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stormborn" data-source="post: 3087410" data-attributes="member: 14041">When i first read your post I thought the undead clerics were the party and was wondering what you were asking.However:1) Figure the CRs for each of the Undead Clerics and consult the table in the DMG regarding mixed encounters.2)  Depending on the party I would increase the over all EL by 1 or 2 due to enviroment.  If the party is spell caster heavy then its a +2 or maybe a +3, if they are a melee combat heavy group then only +1. 3) The freshness of the party shouldn't really effect the EL unless there have been significantly more than 4 or 5 EL appropriate encounters.  Even then maybe not. (see 2 above)4) While you are correct in thinking that the CR of undead assumes the availability of turning, my experiance shows me that even in games with no turning and no magic the average mindless undead doesn't rate a change in CR.  They just take longer to deal with. 5) EL is an imperfect system based on an imperfect system (CR).  Sometimes you just have to guess. Did the party know what was going to happen before they went in?  Did they prepare for it or was it a suprise?  That might determine the EL for awarding xp as well, but not signifcantly.  If anything a well prepared group will lower the CR of a challange more than a unprepared group would raise it. I will add that this situation seems more like a planned TPK than simply a high level threat. Sometiems you push the limits of the PCsand they win and sometimes they lose and sometimes its a little of both, but personally I hate to run or play in games where the adventure stacked against the PCs.</blockquote>

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