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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 7809076" data-attributes="member: 6716779">The adversarial DMS found support in Gygax's writing and people had problems denying them as no "I am not being a jerk I am challenging the player.... " look at that horrible Monty Haul DM" lets all laugh at the guy who lets people get away with stuff ... you are supposed to be making sure they EARNED those stripes. Those low hit point low levels ensured the best option for success was basically cowardice and not being heroic at all.</blockquote> I've never run OSR games like that shrugs. I think the main problem you are experiencing is you don't comprehend most players don't actually care about balance at least in the way you do. They do care if the extremes get bad or if it makes the DMs life hell (3E).  4E balance is pointless if no one wants to play it or it creates new problems like to much healing leading to grinding combats and combats that take to long. You solve some problems and create new ones. You could cut 4E healing by 75% and cut the expected encounters down to say 2/day.  The other balanced D&D would be B/X, wasn't great at level 1 and you could smooth that out in a clone. B/X lacked a lot of the problem spells of AD&D though.[/QUOTE]