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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7810183" data-attributes="member: 996">I want to refute that, but I'm having trouble coming up with examples of relevant people who like D&amp;D....&nbsp;Essence of D&amp;D, right there.;(...I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, but I'm just going to skip the personal bits and stick to the topic: Not entirely.&nbsp; The perception in question is 4e being NOT D&amp;D.I'm just assuming that.&nbsp; I don't think it needs to be argued.&nbsp; The phenomenon of the Edition War needn't be re-examined in detail, it's mere existence stands as ample evidence of that perception.Given that, it's a matter of looking at the commonalities of other eds and how 4e conformed with or deviated from them.The Primacy of Magic not only fits the bill, it's a very prominent feature. &nbsp;Imagine if martial classes got as many and powerful (albeit, with cosmetically different mechanics) maneuvers as casters did spells.&nbsp; The spellpattern would be preserved, but the Primacy of Magic erased.Think it'd be received as really D&amp;D?What Vancian meant changed radically over time.&nbsp; In 3e spontaneous casting was seen as an an alternative to Vancian (even though 3e Clerics &amp; Druids could spontaneously use prepped slots to cast specific spell).&nbsp; In 5e, neo-Vancian co-opted it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7810183, member: 996"] I want to refute that, but I'm having trouble coming up with examples of relevant people who like D&D.... Essence of D&D, right there. ;( ... I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, but I'm just going to skip the personal bits and stick to the topic: Not entirely. The perception in question is 4e being NOT D&D. I'm just assuming that. I don't think it needs to be argued. The phenomenon of the Edition War needn't be re-examined in detail, it's mere existence stands as ample evidence of that perception. Given that, it's a matter of looking at the commonalities of other eds and how 4e conformed with or deviated from them. The Primacy of Magic not only fits the bill, it's a very prominent feature. Imagine if martial classes got as many and powerful (albeit, with cosmetically different mechanics) maneuvers as casters did spells. The spellpattern would be preserved, but the Primacy of Magic erased. Think it'd be received as really D&D? What Vancian meant changed radically over time. In 3e spontaneous casting was seen as an an alternative to Vancian (even though 3e Clerics & Druids could spontaneously use prepped slots to cast specific spell). In 5e, neo-Vancian co-opted it. [/QUOTE]

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