NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7810592" data-attributes="member: 22779">Maybe it got lost in the scrum.The basic argument, put forth by [USER=996]@Tony Vargas[/USER], is that 4e is the only edition where there is consistent  opinion that it isn't actually D&D.  That there is something about it that makes it so different from other editions that it isn't D&D anymore.  It's a fairly common criticism.  "It's a good game, but, it's just not D&D for me" is a fairly oft repeated refrain.We're saying, Ok, fair enough.  If 4e isn't "D&D Enough" then what is it about 4e that makes it so? Given the pretty wide changes between different editions, to point point where you have a fairly large subset of fandom refuse to talk about TETSNBN, but all are still considered "D&D", it seems that 4e did something to cause people to not call it D&D.Which is where Tony V comes in.  He's arguing that 4e is the only edition of D&D where magic isn't primary.  Every other edition had magic being far more powerful and capable of doing far more things than non-magic.  Raise the Dead, Fly, Teleport, Feather Fall - all things that are far beyond what someone can do unless they invoke "it's magic".  Every edition, other than 4e, places magic at the forefront of capabilities.  If you want to do something and you want to be absolutely sure that you succeed, you use magic.  Nothing mundane can ever come close to the upper end of what magic can routinely do.  Even at the lower end of what magic can do is often far beyond what non-magic can accomplish (Feather Fall being a prime example).  So, what else is essential to being D&D?  See, the problem is, folks here are seeing this as an edition war adjunct.  It's not.  It's simply a recognition of facts.  Every edition other than 4e, placed magic at the forefront.  What is being termed, the Primacy of Magic.  That's not a value judgement.  It's not good or bad, it just is and it's just a recognition of how the game is presented.  Since 4e is often called out as "not D&D" and the biggest difference between 4e and other editions is the "Primacy of magic" it's not a really big leap to come to the conclusion that "Primacy of Magic" is the essence of D&D.</blockquote>

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